Russian dips

I was wondering what is a meaningful way to practice russian dips. I have solid basic dip strength, 15-20 normal dips and 5-7 ring dips per set, and can do a few almost complete handstand push ups, but the russian dip eludes me. I seem to lack the required strength to be able to fall on my elbows and push myself back to the low dip position. 

Is the only way to go about this to just do the lowering part to a point where I still can control the movement and come back to dip position, and inch by inch progress towards lowering, or is the whole russian dip part mostly about momentum made by the whole body instead of pure controlled strength?

I guess this same lack in strength is also the biggest obstacle for me regarding the muscle up as I'd presume this similar movement is required in the transition phase?

Yeah, you have the right idea. Gradually increase the ROM until you're going all the way to horizontal forearms with a smooth transition. 

Thanks, I will continue on the set path

1. Make sure you set the PB the correct width.

2. I used a band for myself and Erik to get russian dips. I already had ring dips though Erik was not as strong with bent arm strength on rings (though he was around 15-20 PB dips).

What's the difference between the Russian Dip where you go to horizontal forearms and the other one where you go to an upper-arm support? I have never had the chance to try.

They are both the same.  Horizontal forearms is merely another way of describing having lowered down to the upper arms on the bars. 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Sometimes I see people lowering down to their elbows instead of upper arms. Is this incorrect form?

Yes, that is incorrect.  

This is correct form. With or without the L sit

Jono said:

Sometimes I see people lowering down to their elbows instead of upper arms. Is this incorrect form?

That's incorrect form, but then they're not much different. Lowering to upper arms is a bit harder and better because the elbows are flaring out slightly.

They are very different.  Very little strength is required to lower down to the elbows.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

They are very different.  Very little strength is required to lower down to the elbows.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Is that right? I don't think I've actually ever tried them, bu I didn't think they'd be so different

Interesting. I personally never used russian dips to learn strict ring/bar muscle-ups, as I do not have access to parallel bars. I think they would benefit me in reducing the forward lean though. Shame! I have tried between 2 chairs before, but it's not stable enough.

Jono said:

Interesting. I personally never used russian dips to learn strict ring/bar muscle-ups, as I do not have access to parallel bars. I think they would benefit me in reducing the forward lean though. Shame! I have tried between 2 chairs before, but it's not stable enough.

What you can do with two chairs is train the negative lower, however. In a very niche way it can be even better, because you aren't allowed to lose control and drop at any point. This is how I built up to slow Russian dips, a couple weeks of rainy days G2G on that lower to upper arm support a few times a day.

You can also go from upper arm to the very bottom of the dip, again only as far as you can do it without any bouncing.

Yeah, they are totally different!

I never done them lowering only to elbows either. I never thought they would be so different.

I tried them today at a park that actually has PBs. Pretty tough. I can do 1 L-sit rep, with a medium speed. Not that kipping stuff you see on YouTube lol. They seem really useful for the no lean muscle-up. I also did some pretty wide ring MU (hands outside of the elbows)! I can't quite do an L-sit muscle-up, but it's very close. I just need to improve my no lean press/dip strength a bit more.

Nice progress Jono!   Did you also try doing them with only lowering down to elbows and compared it with the correct form Russian dips? 

B1214N said:

Nice progress Jono!   Did you also try doing them with only lowering down to elbows and compared it with the correct form Russian dips? 

Yes, I tried both. I didn't notice much difference, except I had to actively think about flaring my elbows with the correct version. I always thought that the width of the bars determined the elbow positioning though.

I can now do these down to elbows, but not yet down to the upper arms. The strength requirement seems to be quite different. The work continues and it's already a nice progress though!