Weighted chin ups for the OAC?

Are weighted chin ups the best exercise for getting an OAC?

I've heard if you can do your bodyweight plus 50%+, then you should be able to do a one arm chin ups

It is more like 75%+.

You will see better progress with assisted OACs and rope climbing. Also, weighted chins are somehow way tender for tendons which is why they most likely won't prepare you to the tremendous strain of unassisted OACs.

My tendons are adapted through heavy weighted chins. I do not feel any "tremendous strain" with one arm work anymore, because I prepared properly. It just feels like a regular pull-up, i.e. muscles being worked/fatigued and nothing else.

I have found that if I do too much unilateral work I start to develop imbalances between each side. I think that bilateral and unilateral movements are important for developing a strong OAC, so include rope climbs for sure, but also some sort of bilateral pulling like weighted chins, reverse muscle ups, front levers etc.

First, master rope climbes. When you can do RC with no assistance of your legs, you can start working on assited OAC.

mmmm 2 weeks ago i was talking about that with a national coach of fipe (italian federation of powerlifting)

50% bodyweigth added? wrong

75%BW added? wrong

100% BW added? wrong

everytime you are working with one arm over a pull movement you are losing about 7 to 10 kg due to the nature of the movement (correct the balance, maintain a stationary trajectory etc)

so probably you need 110& BW or more.

Mats said the best thing.

Samui said:

It is more like 75%+.

 

You will see better progress with assisted OACs and rope climbing. Also, weighted chins are somehow way tender for tendons which is why they most likely won't prepare you to the tremendous strain of unassisted OACs.

Not true. Weighted chin-ups can be just as hard on the tendons and elbows if given enough load. I've even heard of people new to pull-ups get tendon/elbow pain when doing basic pull-ups or chins.

I am ultra close to the OAC. Yesterday I did a 65kg dead hang full ROM chin-up @ 72.5kg (90% BW). I also did a 70kg dead hang rep (97% BW), but only managed to the bar to my chin, which does not count in my books. I still cannot do a dead hang OAC. I probably even have the strength to create a positive motion up with 75kg from dead hang.

If we are speaking of what most people's standard of an OAC is, then I already did that with +5kg added. But for me it's dead hang or it doesn't count.

This will more than likely be fixed with one arm scapula pulls and more attention to the bottom ROM in my training. I do not see how rope climbing will address this part of the ROM, unless you are doing some very advanced rope climbs (i.e. one arm pull-ups for each pull).

alex87 said:

mmmm 2 weeks ago i was talking about that with a national coach of fipe (italian federation of powerlifting)

 

50% bodyweigth added? wrong

75%BW added? wrong

100% BW added? wrong

 

everytime you are working with one arm over a pull movement you are losing about 7 to 10 kg due to the nature of the movement (correct the balance, maintain a stationary trajectory etc)

so probably you need 110& BW or more.

 

Mats said the best thing.

I'm not sure about that though. I doubt someone who can only do 1 OAC on each arm will be able to do a weighted chin with 110% or more body weight. I think it's around 90% BW for a OAC.

2 years ago I got the OAC. I trained for it because I thought it was a fun thing to achieve. I first got it with my right arm and a few months later with my left. Funny thing is after I got it with both of my arms I never tried them again. Before I started training for them I had RC (6meter) no legs. I had also done alot of dead hangs (2 arms) as a stretch after strenght work. So RC and dead hangs had been in my routine for some time.

When i decided to start training for the OAC, i did the following specific work:

Dead hang one arm

Pulled up to the top part of a normal 2 armed chin and slowly let go of one hand and tried to hold it.

Super slow assited OAC

And of course I kept doing my RC and 2 armed dead hangs.

But as I said before after I got them I never trained them again. It was a fun thing to have achieved but I dont think they have much carry over to other skills or strenght work.

I never stoped doing dead hangs or RC though. The 2 bent arm exercises that I never stoped working with are RC and HSP. I love these 2 exercises as they are hard to cheat with. Of course there are alot of steps before you can do specific RC or Hsp (described in detail in F1-F4)

i didn't said that (but i think that is not something base upon legend, he is one of the coach of elite italian powerlifter, so i trust in him as i trust in coach essay) and i've never tried that, cause i did only body weight variations to reach my actual level of strength in pull movement.

if you have access to a pulley system you can test before your 1RM and after cut it in half and see how much you can pull with one arm, ideally if you are right and you can pull a 190%BW you will able to do a OAC.

I've experimented and confirmed on myself that with one arm movement i can pull about the 8-10% less of my actual 1RM/2 for the 2 arms chin up.

i suppose that i have to pull at least the bodyweigth to do an OAC and for sure add some weight to fill the gap due to one arm movement.

could be curious test for it.

Mat how do you train dead hang one arm?

I mean if I perform dead hang, my arm or shoulder twisting around, do you resist the twisting?

Also I can perform 2 ascent rope climb 4m height with leg straddle, what do you suggest for me to attain OAC?

Add more ascent or add weight?

Cu fang said:

Mat how do you train dead hang one arm?

I mean if I perform dead hang, my arm or shoulder twisting around, do you resist the twisting?

Also I can perform 2 ascent rope climb 4m height with leg straddle, what do you suggest for me to attain OAC?

Add more ascent or add weight?

In the beginning the same happened to me. Take a towel and wrap around the pull up bar. Now grab one hand on the bar and the other on the towel, simply start relaxing your grip on the towel. Over time your muscles will get stronger in this position and you will be able to let go completly of the "towelhand"

I never added weight. I worked on the assited OAC with the towel around the bar. As I got stronger I moved my "towelhand" further down.

Hand holding the bar is it supinate grip or pronated?

I used supinate grip

B1214N said:

Not true. Weighted chin-ups can be just as hard on the tendons and elbows if given enough load. I've even heard of people new to pull-ups get tendon/elbow pain when doing basic pull-ups or chins.

The thing is, because of bilateral deficit, you will be able to pull a lot more with one arm than with two. This is the reason many people can do full OACs when they only can do weighted chins with 65-85% external weight. But unfortunately two arm chins even with +80% BW is not putting equal amount of strain to connective tissue as OAC negatives do. OAC negatives used to be very tough when I first got into them with my reckless attitude and lack of knowledge but weighted chin negatives even with +90% BW didn't put even close similar amount of strain to my tendons.

Samui said:

The thing is, because of bilateral deficit, you will be able to pull a lot more with one arm than with two. This is the reason many people can do full OACs when they only can do weighted chins with 65-85% external weight. But unfortunately two arm chins even with +80% BW is not putting equal amount of strain to connective tissue as OAC negatives do. OAC negatives used to be very tough when I first got into them with my reckless attitude and lack of knowledge but weighted chin negatives even with +90% BW didn't put even close similar amount of strain to my tendons.

That makes sense. I never felt strain in my tendons and elbows when doing OACs, but I thought weighted bilateral chins with the same load would put a similar amount of strain too since I've heard of people getting pain in the tendons and elbows when doing them even non-weighted ones for some people new to them.

Cu fang said:

Mat how do you train dead hang one arm?

I mean if I perform dead hang, my arm or shoulder twisting around, do you resist the twisting?

 

There are 2 variations of the OAC. You can start with a neutral grip or semi-supinated grip and twist to a full supinated grip as you go up or you can start with a supinated grip and resist the twisting to keep the body mostly facing perpendicular to the bar and then pull. The latter being the harder one.

Cu fang said:

Hand holding the bar is it supinate grip or pronated?

Supinated will be OAC and pronated will be OAP. OAP is harder than OAC.

can rc over time get u to aoc?

kalel said:

can rc over time get u to aoc?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vTIfss5oF8w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

o_o

what is this? videos don't embed?

Just post the link and watch magic happen ;-)

kalel said:

can rc over time get u to aoc?

I wouldn't be at all surprised, as long as you are making efforts to reach your hands higher (ie further apart) over time. Making your rope climbs cirques would expedite the process no doubt.

That said I have a reasonable rope climb and no OAC, although I have nearly half ROM with no specific training. Once my climbing rope arrives I'll keep more track of my progress in that respect.

kalel said:

can rc over time get u to aoc?

Yes, 100% for sure.

If you follow the rope climb progressions for all of Foundation, from F1 to F4, you will have a very strong OAC (and probably multiple reps) without ever having trained for it specifically.

I've seen this in person with Daniel Burnham. All he did was Coach's RC progressions (he attended a seminar a year ago and has just been doing nothing but the Foundation work since then), and I have seen him do a OAC on a rope at the end of his workout. It is pretty insane to watch.

If you want to get retarded strong in this stuff, do yourself  a favor and follow F1-4. 

If you build a truly strong body, it will be able to do many things with very little or no specific training for that one thing when compared to someone who just trains for that one thing.

I consider most rope climb variations to be OAC/OAP specific since it is basically the same motion, but on a rope.

Daniel Burnham said he found that a rope OAC is easier than a OAC on a bar though. 

tnx for answers guys.

btw which dimension do you use for climbing?