Question about functionality and alternatives

I got 2 main questions that I have been wondering about fir a while now.

1. In what way can I incorporate weights into my training. I'm mainly talking about deadlifts, benchpresses, etc. I have the urge to bulk since I am a bit skinny and so I wanted to know what other ways I can train to gain functional strength along with mass.

The only idea I had in mind was wearing weight vests when doing pull ups, dips, etc. but are there other exercises that will approach the functional mass at a faster rate? (Completely ignoring nutrition. Lets SUGGEST the nutrition is of a pro athlete.)

2. I don't really have any gymnastics centres to go to so I was wondering what are alternative ways to practice parallel bars and pommel horse routines. I don't mind the idea of building them, even though the bars are made of expensive fibre glass, but I am wondering if there is another way.

That is all I have. Thank you in advanced.

1. I used a 531 basic program in 2011 spending 2 or 3 days a week just doing the big lifts and no accessories (seeing as I already was training 4-5 days a week in the gym). I liked it and I used it mainly because I had taken off a good 3 months away from lifting maybe 4 to 5 without regular lifting so I wanted something that could ease me back into lifting. It also didn't take a lot of time.

In general I liked this though I eventually added a third day of FS and Good Mornings and a day of accessory work of weighted pullups and dips. I found I could not do 2 days of weighted BW work. I had a read of 531 and Wendler for some time so I wanted to try it as well. When my sleep was in order, I could still have really good days of skill work and I was always able to do my gymnastics strength work.

If you want to bulk up, add squats. They will bulk you up more than DL and BP though obviously BP will build the chest. These days I prefer DB BP parallel or turned out as an assistance exercise but a bar BP aggravates my shoulders too much.

And sorry, weighted BW lower body work is not the same thing. 

2. You can build a set of bars from wood and metal. Won't be great, and you can't really reset the bars but I've seen some of these homemade sets at CrossFit gyms. The bars obviously don't absorb and bounce so that effects swing work to some degree.

 You can also build yourself your own mushroom or bucket rig to work circle work. However, I don't see anyone building themself a wannabee pommel horse for single leg work. If you have access to a single rail, you can kind of do single leg work. Kind of, sort of but not really.

You're going to have to make a trade-off between functional strength and gaining mass more quickly. If you stick with pure Gymnastic Strength Training™, you'll experience the best gains in functional strength. The mass will come, but not as quickly as it would if you were to for example take up body-building. On the other hand, if you focus more on mass gain, you'll get bigger faster, but your functional strength gains will suffer. 

In my personal opinion, if you take the long-view, focusing on functional strength is the clear winner. After five years of hard gymnastics style strength training, you could have have functional strength in spades (full front/back levers, a straddle planche, maybe even a manna or a cross), excellent coordination and balance, and you'll have the body of a gymnast. 

Note that no matter what you decide, you must do proper mobility work. Whether you're doing bench presses or planche leans, mobility work is essential to preventing injury. 

Blairbob: Thank you for the information! I wasn't actually trying to use the pommel horse as a leg workout. I just love the pommel horse and I want to practice doing circles, flares and russians on both objects and ground. That is the main reason why I'd want to build one. I am taking gymnastics training very seriously because I am going to be studying abroad and I've found a few gymnastics centres that will accept having a late entry.

Joshua: Thank you for your response! I am wondering, would it help if I go on and off weight training? Lets suggest that for a month I would bulk and for two or 3 months I'd keep doing strength training. Would that be a better approach? Or is it ideally the same as bulking? Would it help if I add the same weight I'd gain? Lets say I am looking to gain 30-40 lb. If I add that amount (Progressively of course, not all at once) during my workouts, would I be as strong when I gain those 30-40lb?  

Systemic said:

Joshua: Thank you for your response! I am wondering, would it help if I go on and off weight training? Lets suggest that for a month I would bulk and for two or 3 months I'd keep doing strength training. Would that be a better approach? Or is it ideally the same as bulking? Would it help if I add the same weight I'd gain? Lets say I am looking to gain 30-40 lb. If I add that amount (Progressively of course, not all at once) during my workouts, would I be as strong when I gain those 30-40lb?  

The issue is not that gaining 30-40lbs will make it harder to gain functional strength. If you gained those 30-40lbs in the right places, it would in fact help. The issue is that the amount that muscle mass will help is small compared to how much further you could have progressed if you had devoted that time and effort to just functional strength training. 

Functional strength requires much more than just strong muscles. You need to train your muscles how to work together. You need to gain the kinesthetic awareness and coordination to make your body move in the right ways. You need to develop the balance to hold and move through the various strength positions. You need to develop strength in your joints and connective tissues, so that your limbs are strong at any angle, through their entire range of motion. Weight-training simply doesn't develop these other aspects at anywhere near the rate that Gymnastic Strength Training™ does. 

Also, while gymnastics training won't develop muscle mass as quickly as dedicated weight training, it's not horribly slow. If you work hard and follow good progressions, you'll make steady, consistent mass gains over time. 

So if I chose to focus on functional strength, I don't have to eat a caloric surplus, correct? I'd just eat till my maintenance level. If thats true then how will I grow? Or do I need to eat a caloric surplus?

Systemic said:

So if I chose to focus on functional strength, I don't have to eat a caloric surplus, correct? I'd just eat till my maintenance level. If thats true then how will I grow? Or do I need to eat a caloric surplus?

You're going to need to be getting plenty of food if you want to grow. Lots of vegetables, lots of protein, and a good amount of healthy carbs and fat. 

From what I remember hearing, a lot of experienced fighters just keep getting bigger as the years go on, even though they're actively trying not to move up weight classes.

I think in general gymnasts would try to keep their bodyweight as low as possible as well.

I'm pretty sure if you keep getting stronger, you keep getting bigger.

Joshua Slocum said:

You're going to have to make a trade-off between functional strength and gaining mass more quickly. If you stick with pure Gymnastic Strength Training™, you'll experience the best gains in functional strength. The mass will come, but not as quickly as it would if you were to for example take up body-building. On the other hand, if you focus more on mass gain, you'll get bigger faster, but your functional strength gains will suffer. 

 

In my personal opinion, if you take the long-view, focusing on functional strength is the clear winner. After five years of hard gymnastics style strength training, you could have have functional strength in spades (full front/back levers, a straddle planche, maybe even a manna or a cross), excellent coordination and balance, and you'll have the body of a gymnast. 

 

Note that no matter what you decide, you must do proper mobility work. Whether you're doing bench presses or planche leans, mobility work is essential to preventing injury. 

I'm not sure that's true... I gained a whole lot of muscle just doing F1 with truly excellent nutrition.

Could I have gained faster if I had been lifting heavy weights? I don't know, but putting on 15 lbs of body weight, ~9 of which was muscle based on skin fold tests before and after, is pretty fast for gaining actual muscle tissue.

I know that the general theme here has been to just "eat good food and work out" and that's certainly the best starting point, but when you start paying closer attention to how you stack your food around your workout (while still eating great food), you will start seeing significant improvements in your results.

If you feed your body appropriately, you will see results that will seem out of proportion to the difficulty of the exercises you practice. My gains came while doing nothing but PE1 and PE2 work from what is now the F1 program. There are a few people here who have followed this advice and found similar things have happened to them.

Joshua Naterman said:

I'm not sure that's true... I gained a whole lot of muscle just doing F1 with truly excellent nutrition.

Could I have gained faster if I had been lifting heavy weights? I don't know, but putting on 15 lbs of body weight, ~9 of which was muscle based on skin fold tests before and after, is pretty fast for gaining actual muscle tissue.

I know that the general theme here has been to just "eat good food and work out" and that's certainly the best starting point, but when you start paying closer attention to how you stack your food around your workout (while still eating great food), you will start seeing significant improvements in your results.

If you feed your body appropriately, you will see results that will seem out of proportion to the difficulty of the exercises you practice. My gains came while doing nothing but PE1 and PE2 work from what is now the F1 program. There are a few people here who have followed this advice and found similar things have happened to them.

Yes, definitely. I regard implementing your information as a way to eke the very most out of my Foundation sweat.

Its nice that the gains keep coming, albeit a touch slower, when Im pushed for time and can't hit perfect nutrition though

 Systemic, when I say single leg work, I'm not talking about pistols and shrimps and lunges, etc. Scissor and leg swings are called "Single leg work" on pommel horse because your legs aren't together ( unlike circles ).

Gain 30-40lbs, hahahahha. Maybe in 2 years unless a lot of it is excess besides glycogen storage.

" Lets suggest that for a month I would bulk and for two or 3 months I'd keep doing strength training "

Sounds dumb. 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Just walk forward, man. Use it or lose it. You step away from something for a month, two months and you'll start losing your gains. That's how it is. How much? Not really a lot, but I think you get the picture.

If you want to get good at a skill, you got to do it. All the time. Or at least enough to maintain. If you're a noob, well you don't really have anything to maintain in the first place.
 

" would I be as strong when I gain those 30-40lb? " Yes and no. Some of this kind of depends on your body type and height. But if we're talking about going from 125-160, it's more likely to be a hindrance if you're around 5'. If you are 5'7 or something...well you are a stick. John Gill was extremely strong though and was a stick so being a stick isn't that bad unless you don't want to be a stick.

" From what I remember hearing, a lot of experienced fighters just keep getting bigger as the years go on, even though they're actively trying not to move up weight classes." 

You get older, it gets harder to maintain weight and it's also just a drag. Most athletes that compete in weight classes have this problem. In weightlifting it gets down to some lifters start filling out more as they get older ( Ilya Ilin competed as a Jr in the 85kg class, dominated there and recently the 94s and is now looking to move up to the 105s ). This happens to. You see a lot of female gymnasts that end up this way in college. BIG girls.

Seriously kid, work out doing GST and if you want throw in a bit of back squats and/or deadlifts. If you're only working these twice a week for 30 minutes you are not going to end up getting as big as someone doing that 10-20 hours a week. 

Thank you everyone. That was very helpful!

Joshua Naterman, I'd love to hear more about how you split your meals up. I have read your thread about nutrition and I understand what type of food I should be getting. And since you have said that you gained 9lb of muscle I would really want to know how to approach it. It seems that the gains you had did not lower your strength abilities (or did they?).