Devising a safe, steady progression for pelican pushups

Hi guys

What would be a good progression for laying the foundation to eventually achieve an inverted muscle-up and a back lever bent-arm press to straddle planche, using the pelican pushup as the basic movement?

The steps in the video are goals, to my mind, that would need to be broken down into many more intermediate steps, if one were to succed. Any beginner or advanced beginner jumping straight into straight armed pelicans would be asking for an injury, I suspect.

This progression would assume that a fair amount of proficiency in basic GST has already been established, ie. not a progression for beginners, although some beginners will inevitably jump straight on something like this  . Personally, I am using F1 to achieve the prerequisite strength required to start such a journey. Naturally, ring HSPU and ring straddle planche would also need to be mastered, but that belongs to a different thread. I am planning ahead here, ok?

Pelican Pushup progression:

partial ROM pelican pushups, feet on floor, elbows extended to 120-130 degrees 

negative full ROM pelican pushups, feet on floor

pelican pushups, feet on floor

pelican pushups, feet on floor + lifting feet at bottom ROM to attain BL

XR dip -> BL 10s negative, no foot support

XR dip -> back lever -> XR dip, no foot support

...and from here, it would be a matter of coupling the achieved skill and strength with the planche or HSPU progressions.

Can you spot any obvious holes? 

Actually coach dropped a few hints about the reverse muscle up/beginning ring strength at the Helsinki seminar. Have you been to a seminar yet?

Nope, but I may at some point. Gotta finish my phd first, so for the next year that option is a nogo for me, due to time constraints.

Honestly your best course of action at this point is to finish F1-4. With a solid base of sPL and RC strength, you'll be in a very good position to start tackling the inverted muscle up and the rings planche. 

Joshua Slocum said:

Honestly your best course of action at this point is to finish F1-4. With a solid base of sPL and RC strength, you'll be in a very good position to start tackling the inverted muscle up and the rings planche.

You're right, that would be a good position to begin dealing with the inverted muscle-up etc. However, having spent ~4 months in the foundation series (which I am hell bent on finishing), I can tell that I have capacity for some extra work, so I figure that there's no harm in taking some baby steps now. That doesn't mean that I'll be driving myself into the ground, I'll still get adequate rest and food, and I have gone from a physical to a sedentary job, so I need the extra exercise.

Ravn said:

You're right, that would be a good position to begin dealing with the inverted muscle-up etc. However, having spent ~4 months in the foundation series (which I am hell bent on finishing), I can tell that I have capacity for some extra work, so I figure that there's no harm in taking some baby steps now. That doesn't mean that I'll be driving myself into the ground, I'll still get adequate rest and food, and I have gone from a physical to a sedentary job, so I need the extra exercise.

Unfortunately there isn't really anything outside of foundation work you can be doing at this point that will directly help with developing the pelican. If you can, try adding another day of foundation. Only once you've got all the pieces together (back lever, planche, inverted muscle up) will it really make sense to do pelican specific work. 

I also have a sedantary work and upped the F1 to 6 days with squats included.

Hmm, well I would think that pelican pushups, feet on box, elbows fully extended, would be a great prerequisite for the inverted muscle-up?

I've got the back lever already, and since I'm looking at a lengthy progression of +2 years, I figure that my planche work will have progressed enormously by the time the pelican work is developed enough to begin involving some direct planche work.

The point I'm specifically interested in with regards to pelicans, is the end-ROM just before entering the back lever. Those last degrees of bicep specific strength, going from a loaded straight arm hang, to initiating a curl with no momentum, are a real challenge, but as Coach wrote about Ians in BtGB, also hold the promise of great strength gains. In a pullup position, the lats help tremendously with initiating the motion, but in a behind-the-back curl position, the biceps will have to initiate the motion more or less in isolation while in a disadvantaged position (not trying to lecture to you, you know more about this stuff than me). That sort of strength is very intense on the tendons, and accordingly must be developed very slowly, which is why I want to begin now, with baby steps. I also see other applications to this kind of strength. I've always had pathetic biceps, but strong lats. That's not a cosmetic issue, I don't care, but it becomes an issue when training for things like the OAP, where you need absolutely every last gram of muscle fiber to pull hard. I think the pelicans would be an excellent stimuli for the purpose of getting my biceps to the same level as my lats. And, no, I'm afraid the rope climbs won't help an awful lot there, because I've been rock climbing, doing +50% of bodyweight weighted pullups, slow rope ladder climbing without using feet etc. for 7-8 years, and you can tell my lats are pretty big, but my upper arms just resemble sticks of spaghetti (well, sort of) - they just don't respond to the pulling stuff, I guess. The pelicans hit my weak-link biceps like nothing else I've tried, and for that reason alone I think they are, in my case, a perfect supplement to the F-series.

Ravn said:

Hmm, well I would think that pelican pushups, feet on box, elbows fully extended, would be a great prerequisite for the inverted muscle-up?

And, no, I'm afraid the rope climbs won't help an awful lot there, because I've been rock climbing, doing +50% of bodyweight weighted pullups, slow rope ladder climbing without using feet etc. for 7-8 years, and you can tell my lats are pretty big, but my upper arms just resemble sticks of spaghetti (well, sort of) - they just don't respond to the pulling stuff, I guess. The pelicans hit my weak-link biceps like nothing else I've tried, and for that reason alone I think they are, in my case, a perfect supplement to the F-series.

If you're so strong, why are you only on RC/PE6?

Where does it say that I'm that strong? I just spent an entire post explaining that I've got spaghetti arms

The endurance stuff (RC/PE6 ) is something I've been neglecting for way too long, and now it's biting me in the a**, but I'm happy that the Foundation series forces me to work on my weaknesses.

I'm not strong; if I thought I was, I wouldn't need F1-4.

Ravn said:

Hi guys

 

What would be a good progression for laying the foundation to eventually achieve an inverted muscle-up and a back lever bent-arm press to straddle planche, using the pelican pushup as the basic movement?

 

 

Here is a suggestion that you may want to try.

As a rock climber you probably have most of the equipment to build a Dream Machine with your rings (which will take you half an hour at the most; after you have bought the two Petzold pulleys that you probably do not have). I did that about 14 months ago to try out different moves on my rings (like pelicans) and ended up enjoying training with my DM a lot until I started F1 and H1 training.

Was it effective? Well, I can't do a pelican, but I did get a lot stronger and improved control on the rings. And, I did not get injured. Basically, you train with about half your body weight while having support close to your center of gravity; all depending on your body position relative to your rings. It may go a long way to fulfill your desire to do something more (in the direction of a pelican) and keep you inspired while diligently working your way through the Foundation courses. I will start using my DM (in addition to my F1/F2 and H1 training) as soon as I feel the need for something extra  (which I do not now). Here is a video clip that gives you an idea of what I am talking about. 

FritsMB, that's a great idea.

I actually do have the pulleys you are talking about. I'm an arborist by training, was self-employed doing tree removals and pruning while at university to support the family, so I've got way too much rigging and climbing gear just lying around now.

Using a dream machine would allow me to work the elbow extension at a much lower, safer load. Thanks!

Just to wipe out any doubt: I'm 110% dedicated to the F-series. I bought all four volumes and H1, I train five times a week, haven't missed a workout yet, and recommend it to all my friends. It's the best thing I ever did in terms of training, strength and longevity, and the best product out there, IMO.

The OP is not a critique of F1-4, neither implicitly, nor explicitly. I'm just a curious guy, and if that is being perceived as foolishness, well, I can live with that  .

Ravn said:

Using a dream machine would allow me to work the elbow extension at a much lower, safer load. Thanks!

 

The OP is not a critique of F1-4, neither implicitly, nor explicitly. I'm just a curious guy, and if that is being perceived as foolishness, well, I can live with that  .

If you'd like to play around in a dream machine, there's nothing wrong with that. But keep in mind it's only that: playing. 

There's nothing foolish about curiosity. What's foolish is deciding that now is the time to start working on a very advanced progression that puts tremendous strain on your tendons. You haven't even completed your basic training; if now were a good time to start training an inverted muscle-up, it would be in Foundation. 

Ravn said:

FritsMB, that's a great idea.

 

I actually do have the pulleys you are talking about. I'm an arborist by training, was self-employed doing tree removals and pruning while at university to support the family, so I've got way too much rigging and climbing gear just lying around now.

 

Using a dream machine would allow me to work the elbow extension at a much lower, safer load. Thanks!

 

Just to wipe out any doubt: I'm 110% dedicated to the F-series. I bought all four volumes and H1, I train five times a week, haven't missed a workout yet, and recommend it to all my friends. It's the best thing I ever did in terms of training, strength and longevity, and the best product out there, IMO.

 

The OP is not a critique of F1-4, neither implicitly, nor explicitly. I'm just a curious guy, and if that is being perceived as foolishness, well, I can live with that  .

That is the way I understood your OP. So, if you want to do a little more (and something different) GST-wise and have some fun, try a dream machine; you have all the stuff to make one. It is safe (no tremendous strains on your tendons), while it does give you a good appreciation of how much more training these more advanced moves (like cross, inverted muscle up, maltese, victorian) require. Have fun.

Joshua Slocum said:

 

There's nothing foolish about curiosity. What's foolish is deciding that now is the time to start working on a very advanced progression that puts tremendous strain on your tendons. You haven't even completed your basic training; if now were a good time to start training an inverted muscle-up, it would be in Foundation. 

 

Took a few days off to keep this thread from turning into a stupid internet argument. I also went back and re-read BtGB, specifically the sections on curls and combined pull/press, and of course it turns out you're right, this IS a very advanced progression, if the end goal is Ians or no-feet pelican pushups. At my level I can probably handle the early progressions, but would be out of my depth on the harder ones. I really need to stop being so neurotic about my workouts

Bottomline, yes there's no reason to commence this progression at the moment, even though it is still high on my wishlist. I'll focus on my foundation henceforth.

I've got one more question though: Would it be a bad idea to work on straddle L-sits, using the progression Coach provides in BtGB?

Straddle-L is way more basic than pelicans, and I see it as more of an active flexibility drill than pure strength move. I think that practicing straddle-L would only help my Manna work and vice versa. I would pair it with some pancake stretch variations to speed up my flexibility gains. I've done this for the past month, and haven't had any issues.

Yeah, the back lever curls are super insanely difficult. You need to be able to bicep curl a lot more than your body weight to do a full BL curl. I was only able to do the BL curl with a tuck position and I was very close to being able to BB curl my full body weight back then with strict form. 

I guess you can do a few sets of DB or BB curls or scaled ring curls a day or two per week to start building up the biceps strength after your F1-F4 workouts. It shouldn't really affect your F1-F4 progress.

If you're really excited about learning a straddle-L, I don't think you'd have any problems playing around with it after Foundation work. I'd recommend making sure you do this on the same day as Manna training so that your hip flexors get a recovery day, however.