Planche Lean sPL/PE5 and sPL/PE6 (Needing some technical answers)

I was just noticing in the videos for how the planche lean is performed and it said the description box that hips over hands is the goal. It appears as if the guy who is doing the movement is not fully over which made me wonder if you are longer limbed is it absolutely necessary to go that far? Especially if you practically levitating over the ground and toes are just scratching the surface?

I ask because I noticed with myself after examining different hand positioning that when I'm farther away from the hips I can lean further and hold my form better vs being closer and having a slightly rounded lower back.

Any help/experience would be awesome.

Thanks in advance.

Im sure the best way to check is to provide a video of it.

Leo Trinidad said:

Im sure the best way to check is to provide a video of it.

Of me? I would love to if I had a camera. I'll see about getting one soon for other reasons asides something like this. The best example I can go with is somebody being long limbed and the effects of how that plays into progressions in elements. I don't know if Coach would be willing to chime in as I know he's practically worked with them all. Also this a general question with longer people. I've seen a post about a success story of a really tall person from GB and I was wondering how long it took him to develop his planche and if it made a significant difference where he placed his hands...

strongyetagile said:

Of me? I would love to if I had a camera. I'll see about getting one soon for other reasons asides something like this. The best example I can go with is somebody being long limbed and the effects of how that plays into progressions in elements. I don't know if Coach would be willing to chime in as I know he's practically worked with them all. Also this a general question with longer people. I've seen a post about a success story of a really tall person from GB and I was wondering how long it took him to develop his planche and if it made a significant difference where he placed his hands...

no smart phone? you can upload images on mobile

If your hands are under your COM (hips for most people) then you would basically be in a full planche rather than a planche lean. They meant just in front of your COM for the planche leans. What you said sounds like you are already doing planche leans with maximal lean if your toes are just scratching the surface. You are probably very close to a low full planche. Have you tried a straddle planche yet? It's also obvious that you can lean more if your hands are not close to your hips.

Also, having the hands facing back makes you have a lesser lean in a planche, but it's still harder because you get no leverage from the wrists.

Zach Armijo said:

Quite the opposite. By having hands facing backwards, it is harder because of the higher stress on the shoulders and biceps, but it also removes the "block" that the wrists provide by letting you lean further. People will use the hands facing forward because they may find that the wrists limit the ROM from leaning TOO far, keeping them in their comfort zone of lean.  Hand placement is preference for people on what is comfortable. Those with flexible wrists may find they can lean further than with hands backwards because of either the extended ROM of the wrists or due to the lack of strength in the biceps and added stress on the girdle. The further back i go in planche, I have my hands backwards, and the balance is on the palm  of my hand. But when I am doing HBPs, my hands are forward to facilitate the transition from a bent arm PL to a HS. Flat Tuck PL on rings: hands back. Flat tuck/ straddle on floor: hands forward. PL on P bars....well....that's obvious. Lets just say there is no downside to how far you take your lean. Do what is comfortable, but most importantly: DO. 

So what would you recommend then to someone who is long limbed like me? Granted, I am at least 1-2 months away from mastering sPL/PE5, I just need to work on upping my volume work plus some endurance. Would you say that as long as my toes are just scratching the ground and my arms are in good form, I should be just fine regardless of how and where I position my hands? Even if it's not under my hips?

Zach Armijo said:

Quite the opposite. By having hands facing backwards, it is harder because of the higher stress on the shoulders and biceps, but it also removes the "block" that the wrists provide by letting you lean further. People will use the hands facing forward because they may find that the wrists limit the ROM from leaning TOO far, keeping them in their comfort zone of lean.  Hand placement is preference for people on what is comfortable. Those with flexible wrists may find they can lean further than with hands backwards because of either the extended ROM of the wrists or due to the lack of strength in the biceps and added stress on the girdle. The further back i go in planche, I have my hands backwards, and the balance is on the palm  of my hand. But when I am doing HBPs, my hands are forward to facilitate the transition from a bent arm PL to a HS. Flat Tuck PL on rings: hands back. Flat tuck/ straddle on floor: hands forward. PL on P bars....well....that's obvious. Lets just say there is no downside to how far you take your lean. Do what is comfortable, but most importantly: DO. 

I agree with what you said, I actually worded my statement badly. What I meant to say is that putting your hands backward puts a greater angle between the arms and torso than hands forward which means the maximal amount of lean is slightly less than in a planche with hands forward. This is very apparent if you look at planches with hands back and compare the angle or lean with planches done with hands forward by the same or similar person.

Zach Armijo said:

When you say "scratching" do you mean that you are fighting the drag of the forward lean? 

 

If your activation is correct: strong protraction, depression and tight core, then you should be good to go as long as you are working in the range of the bottom of your sternum to hips. Increase in lean obviously comes with time. If at all possible, use your phone to record your lean so we can get a much better idea of what we are dealing with as far as issues go. 

I just went ahead today and bought a camera.

I do realize I wasn't fully over with my lean as seen mid point where my toes began to rise when the camera snapped a shot but you get the general idea. I did aim for what you said as, " working in the range of the bottom of your sternum to hips".

Critique? I don't mind the truth as its good for me long term if I want to do cooler stuff later on.

Because of technical difficulties on my side, I just tweeted the picture. Look up @strongyetagile and you should see it. For some reason I can't just post it directly through here no matter where I try to send it through or attach it to. Weird..

 

edit: Mod Fixed

 

Are your arms fully straight?

Looks good.

I recommend you to set up your feet/toes like in the picture i attached. This will force more lean forward and it is much harder to cheat this way. Also put your PL leans without shoes and with socks on a "slippery" floor. The photo is obviously upside down but you get the idea.

FredInChina said:

Are your arms fully straight?

As straight as they will allow themselves to be. My arms have a slight bow in them naturally even when I have it straight out. Genetics aha.

Mats Trane said:

Looks good.

I recommend you to set up your feet/toes like in the picture i attached. This will force more lean forward and it is much harder to cheat this way. Also put your PL leans without shoes and with socks on a "slippery" floor. The photo is obviously upside down but you get the idea.

image.jpg

Curling on the knuckles? Sounds painful but duly noted! Normally I would be doing something like this but because of where I was shooting this, it was pretty rough on the feet. (That's where I will ultimately be training for ring work during the summer. It'll be tough landings from 8-10 feet up, no mats, and solid concrete below.)

The MMA mat inside the building was being occupied among the other classes going on. Usually I sneak off to a small section of the building that is unused and train there as that's all I need.

strongyetagile said:

Curling on the knuckles? Sounds painful but duly noted! 

 

 

Not Painful if you lean forward enough

Regarding the toes, I've been wondering about the importance of doing sPL/PE5 with the tops of my toes on the ground (like in the demonstrations in the courses, and Mats Trane's picture) v. the way strongyetagile is demonstrating in his picture. Are both ways "correct," as long as hands are about at hip level, and the back is flat? I have been trying to use the tops of my feet/toes as much as I can, but by sets 2-3 they ache something terrible. That's with socks on, on a 3/4" foam mat (so both cushioned and slippery). I'll start that way, but the pain becomes so distracting after 5-10 seconds that I have to switch. After I switch, I can finish the set. But is this "cheating?" sPL/PE4 and earlier preparatory elements do not demonstrate use of this "top of the foot" style 

wamarler said:

(...) they ache something terrible. (...)

 

That's the whole point: when the pain becomes intolerable, you'll lift your feet and have your planche

It's probably because you aren't leaning far enough if it hurts your feet/toes.

wamarler said:

Regarding the toes, I've been wondering about the importance of doing sPL/PE5 with the tops of my toes on the ground (like in the demonstrations in the courses, and Mats Trane's picture) v. the way strongyetagile is demonstrating in his picture. Are both ways "correct," as long as hands are about at hip level, and the back is flat? I have been trying to use the tops of my feet/toes as much as I can, but by sets 2-3 they ache something terrible. That's with socks on, on a 3/4" foam mat (so both cushioned and slippery). I'll start that way, but the pain becomes so distracting after 5-10 seconds that I have to switch. After I switch, I can finish the set. But is this "cheating?" sPL/PE4 and earlier preparatory elements do not demonstrate use of this "top of the foot" style

you are beginning to load cartilage, so this is somewhat expected if they aren't already a little strenghtened just lean appropriately or put something under your feet allow them to glide on the surface you do them on. i do my leans every now and again to how my straight arm strength is improving. on my monday workout, I actually did my first and eventually every set of my scapular shrugs with feet pointed. made them feel extra....spectacular (not mandatory though) they felt like i had given my feet a massage xD