Question about long distance running.

Hi !

Yesterday there was a marathon where you could run 10, 21,42 kilometres.

I ran 10 km ( havent been preparing and have never run that distance )

At the end I was spent, Defeated by the heat and the long run.

Today my legs are very sore - that is a no brainer, but My Upper back and obliques and biceps are sore as hell too.

Is this common ?

I knew I could not continue but I pushed my self and did it with a not bad time. But i think that I wont run again because it was a total torture.

Actually I get this with longer runs. I put it down to poor running technique; its never bothered me enough to spend time correcting it, I can run plenty without needing to train for marathon distances, even if it interested me (it doesn't).

There are a lot of relaxation techniques used by runners to avoid building up tension in shoulders, arms etc. If running is something you enjoy then you should look into this

I used to be a cross country runner but had to stop running for a long time due to some chronic pain issues.  I have worked on my posture and I think those problems are entirely in the past.  Now I am working on barefoot running and finding that my traps are the first thing to fatigue.  My feet and abdomen come shortly after.

For me it was also really rough getting started running as well.  But since I was new to barefoot running I started with running only 30 seconds to one minute.  With some walking.  Then later adding in extra intervals of the same length.  My goal is just to enjoy running like I used to though so I prefer to take it easy and have fun rather that push as hard as I can.  Running for me was an escape from my problems and not an additional problem in my life.

 When long distance running, I remember them coaching us to use the arms as little as possible close to the chest with the elbows close. You don't want to be swinging your arms a lot

I've been doing a LOT (for me) of running lately and my endurance and stamina have improved as much from paying attention to form and learning to relax, as they have from adaptation.

There are some great drills (and general discussion on integrating weight training with endurance training) in the following article:

http://www.atlargenutrition.com/blog/2013/01/so-you-want-to-run/

Passive drills 1 (leading with the chest) and 2 (arms like Optimus Prime) will help with releaving tension in the upper body

Also concentrate on your breathing.  Try to make sure you're breathing deeply via the diaphragm and not just up in your chest.  Take a big deep breath every now and then to remind yourself; and relax your shoulders if they've built up any tension

I haven't been running much lately but I intend on relearning how to run and getting back out there. Sounds silly I know but no one ever taught me how to run properly and I'm sure there's a lot that could be improved.

I've done a little research and the POSE technique looks really interesting. Might be worth a look:

http://www.posetech.com/

Brian Mackenzie has an interesting take on training for running. I found a youtube video of one of his running classes which is similar to the POSE technique:

To me, your experience sounds like a combination of lack of preparation for the distance and possibly a less than ideal posture while running What you are feeling is very, very normal for the kind of preparation you did. It felt like torture because you were exposing your body to something it was completely unprepared for Better training would have produced a better experience.

Let me tell you a very short story. My girlfriend ran a 17:30 2 mile race last year. Then she got hit by a car on her bike, and wasn't able to run for about 6 months, and when we started back I had her building up super slowly because she was afraid to do much, because her running form needed work, and because she was completely deconditioned for running. Over the course of 4 months, AFTER a 6 month layoff, she never ran more than 2 miles and she never ran at faster than a 19 minute 2 mile pace. We did leg strength work in the gym, focusing on form. Basic stuff, like how to squat properly. Right now she's using 35 lbs on back squat and 50 lbs on the goblet squat. We did a few small interval workouts.

Her race time this year was just under 15 minutes, despite not training anywhere nearly as hard as she did last year AND still overcoming some lingering hip issues, and she did this with zero pain during OR afterwards. Her training workouts never seemed super difficult, and they never made her particularly sore after the first 1-2 sessions.

This success happened for one simple reason: We made a simple plan that addressed her needs, and we followed it to the letter. She felt like she could have gone faster, but didn't want to push her luck.

The tailoring was simple: Learn how to run, and then start adding some volume. It's pretty much exactly what we do here in the Foundation work (and all other GB products).

Good training looks the same in all sports: First you master the form, then you slowly add volume, and when you reach a pre-determined point of mastery (set/rep goals with a certain weight, for example, or consistently running your basic patterns correctly, or meeting Coach's mastery requirements for FL/PE6) you move on to the next step of the plan.

Good training looks like this:

1. Have a plan
2. Follow the plan
3. Keep following the plan.
4. Win.

If you didn't know that before, perhaps this post will have helped

Joshua Naterman said:

To me, your experience sounds like a combination of lack of preparation for the distance and possibly a less than ideal posture while running What you are feeling is very, very normal for the kind of preparation you did. It felt like torture because you were exposing your body to something it was completely unprepared for Better training would have produced a better experience.

 

Let me tell you a very short story. My girlfriend ran a 17:30 2 mile race last year. Then she got hit by a car on her bike, and wasn't able to run for about 6 months, and when we started back I had her building up super slowly because she was afraid to do much, because her running form needed work, and because she was completely deconditioned for running. Over the course of 4 months, AFTER a 6 month layoff, she never ran more than 2 miles and she never ran at faster than a 19 minute 2 mile pace. We did leg strength work in the gym, focusing on form. Basic stuff, like how to squat properly. Right now she's using 35 lbs on back squat and 50 lbs on the goblet squat. We did a few small interval workouts.

 

Her race time this year was just under 15 minutes, despite not training anywhere nearly as hard as she did last year AND still overcoming some lingering hip issues, and she did this with zero pain during OR afterwards. Her training workouts never seemed super difficult, and they never made her particularly sore after the first 1-2 sessions.

 

This success happened for one simple reason: We made a simple plan that addressed her needs, and we followed it to the letter. She felt like she could have gone faster, but didn't want to push her luck.

 

The tailoring was simple: Learn how to run, and then start adding some volume. It's pretty much exactly what we do here in the Foundation work (and all other GB products).

 

Good training looks the same in all sports: First you master the form, then you slowly add volume, and when you reach a pre-determined point of mastery (set/rep goals with a certain weight, for example, or consistently running your basic patterns correctly, or meeting Coach's mastery requirements for FL/PE6) you move on to the next step of the plan.

 

Good training looks like this:

 

1. Have a plan
2. Follow the plan
3. Keep following the plan.
4. Win.

 

If you didn't know that before, perhaps this post will have helped

Thanks, Josh

@ Joel Tomkins, Brian Mackenzie may have some okay running drills/form videos, but please, please do not listen to his programming at Crossfit Endurance. If you're unfamiliar with it, they're opinion is that excessive anaerobic training with help to build your aerobic capacity. Excessive in the sense of DAY AFTER DAY. They then expect you, after not running your race distance, take a marathon for example, to run it very fast.

The best GST comparison I can make is training maltese 5x a week, for quite a while, with iron crosses in there as well. Keep in mind that the person doing the malteses is relatively untrained. They NEED an easy day, and that is how it works in running. Adaptation is what happens to make you better. Every serious runner takes easy days. You don't see Mackenzie's athletes up in the pack in races for a reason. Sorry for the rant, he is just destroying some people's potential.

Interesting... I hadn't looked for criticism of Brian Mackenzie and his method but it does seem like there is some out there among serious runners now that you mention it - and I can't find any results for his clients, in fact I can't even find their names.

I've never been to CFE and didn't intend on it as GST is way cooler than CF.

 CFE is probably alright for the recreational runner/marathoner that wants to run those things yet not put in a huge amount of mileage while doing CF at the same time.

 POSE is interesting similar to Chi running and a few other NEW running styles. A lot of good can be said about it.

 There is also a lot of contention with it.

 Again, probably great for those Recreational runners.