PE4 Confusion concering the flat back position

Hi, everyone. I finished my PE3 cycle last week. And this past week I started PE4. And I am utterly confused.

I get the part about the shoulders. Hold the weighted bar, and flex the shoulders. Simple. I can do this part just fine.

But, keeping the lower back flat. This is really, amazingly hard. I cannot manage to get my lower back flat and contact the floor. So I looked through the future course exercises and found that this is basically PE12>iM: Supine posterior pelvic tilt. Something I shouldn't be doing for at least a year or two. What's the deal? Why am I doing a PE4 exercise that entails doing a PE12>iM exercise???

I can manage PE4 if I keep my knees bent, so it's like PE11>iM. But that's not what the exercise asks for. And even so, the exercise shouldn't be asking me to do something that requires mastery of PE9,10, and 11 iM's. Even with knees bent, my abdominals are on fire trying to keep my lower back in contact with the floor. Like, I don't even feel this sort of difficulty with full HLL's. And anyways, I'm figuring the point of PE4 concerns shoulder flexion. So all this trouble with a flat back either means something is terribly wrong with me or I'm doing something wrong.

Help?

hey can you do the PE with hands next to the body? I thought this movement is all about technique not really a flexibility thing (maybe shoulders?) 

What helped me to understand the technique is going really slow into it first to really know what to do with your ribs. I find it especially easy (thats what I do to warm up) to let my hands next to my body and me chin on the chest. With this it should be no problem to get the rib pulled down and a super flat back. Try it out.

After that i just lower my head and start the moevement with my hands.

Hope it helps =)

Based on your message I'm guessing your hip flexors, internal rotators or something else in the hip is tight, which prevents you from comfortably flattening your lower back. You said that a (small?) knee bend makes the move possible, that's one sign.

A multifaceted approach to (hip) mobility has in my case uncovered a few surprising weak links. With all the F1 iM's I'm noticing great improvements in my hip flexibility without any supplemental stretching.

Thanks for the replys guys.

Badi, Yea, I am doing this with hands next to body. I tried chin on chest - upper back manages tp stay in contact with the floor, but my lower back could not. It seems like my shoulders are fine, the problem and the strain in the movement is in my hips struggling to PPT.

Niklas, thanks for the info. I don't have F1, but I will look into hip flexor and internal rotator stretches. I remember trying an especially good hip flexor stretch by Kit Laughlin. I know for sure that my hip flexors are tight, judging off of my freestanding handstand practice before H1 released. Getting my hips to open was my most problematic issue.

And yes, a small knee bend makes the movement possible and much easier.

PE>iM12 is moving into and out of the PPT repeatedly. For PE>iM4, you just have to hold that position. However, as has been noted, particularly tight hips might prevent you from being able to reach that position. My advice would be to do a lot of stretching, as has already been suggested. You might also consider incorporating PE>iM9 into your workouts, or just doing it frequently throughout the day.

that position is very similar to an hollow body hold with feet and hands at 2-3 cm from the floor where you can also actively push the hands on the floor with traps strenght..

the reason of your problem can be lack o mobility in the previous elements. for my experience .. the dislocate must equal about shoulders distance or 15-20 cm more, BUT not more. i don't know you status but for the majority part of people the problem in that position is low proficiency with the previous mobility exercises. of course increase the weight is a good goal but first look at the hands distance. you have to remember that handstand is shoulders distance no more than that. for this reason mobility drills can take long time to be developed, for my case about 2 years and now i'm still working on them to make them more fluid, slow, controlled only by traps strength.

on the other hands low flexibility over hips flexors resulting in an accentuated tilt in pelvic section. this decreases the possibility to make the lower back flat. in that position you are actively extending the hips flexors but if the tension between upper and lower body is too much high you can't do it.

see what is your situation and work to solve it...

Ok, thanks a lot everyone! Looks like the consensus is on lack of mobility and inflexibility. Hari, I will add PE9>iM. Alex, definitely seems like the problem is in the hips.

I will focus on the hip flexor stretches from Kit Laughlin's book. And if anyone has some other good exercises, I would be grateful.
 

Bend your knees and place your feet flat on the floor if you are currently unable to maintain a flat back with straight knees.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Biren P. said:

Ok, thanks a lot everyone! Looks like the consensus is on lack of mobility and inflexibility. Hari, I will add PE9>iM. Alex, definitely seems like the problem is in the hips.

I will focus on the hip flexor stretches from Kit Laughlin's book. And if anyone has some other good exercises, I would be grateful.

 

happy to hear that you have discovered the problem. the solution of coach is very good, something very similar you can do when you need to train some hollow position while you are increasing the flexibility...decreasing the leverage that increase the problem

If you can maintain a flat back when your shoulders aren't flexed, but can't when the shoulders are flexed, wouldn't that suggest tight lats? The lats attach to the pelvis, and if you maximally flex your shoulders, tightness in the lats could pull the pelvis into anterior rotation and thus extend your lumbar spine.

Which is why I'd put my money on the lats being tight rather than the hip flexors. Or did I skim over something about the OP doing the exercise without any shoulder flexion and still having issues?

Doddibot said:

If you can maintain a flat back when your shoulders aren't flexed, but can't when the shoulders are flexed, wouldn't that suggest tight lats? The lats attach to the pelvis, and if you maximally flex your shoulders, tightness in the lats could pull the pelvis into anterior rotation and thus extend your lumbar spine.

 

Which is why I'd put my money on the lats being tight rather than the hip flexors. Or did I skim over something about the OP doing the exercise without any shoulder flexion and still having issues?

Perhaps you are right, but I suspect that my mastery of PE1 and PE3 indicates that lat mobility is not the problem?

Yes, even without shoulder flexion, such as in PE12>im, I still have issues.

Rigorous hip flexor stretching multiple times throughout the day this past week has helped immensly. Using Kit Laughlin's solo hip flexor stretch and Ido Portal's diagonal stretch, I am now able to just barely manage to get my back flat on the ground. Just barely. And it's very hard. But, it's progress. I suspect a few months from now I will have solved this issue.

Also, I noticed my PE3 forearm headstand improved. I thought I had mastery, but it seems my PPT could have been a lot better!

I have the same problem.  I have a significant anterior pelvic tilt, which F1 is slowly rectifying.  Coach, you have said that it is okay to do this exercise with knees bent in order to flatten the lower back.  Should we assume that Mastery, and therefore progression to PE5 requires us to have straight legs?  or does mastery focus on the shoulders, and later iM movements will correct the anterior pelvic tilt?

Primate said:

... Should we assume that Mastery, and therefore progression to PE5 requires us to have straight legs? ...

Yes.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer