Increasing legs and lower back flexibility

Can someone give me a way to increase my leg flexibility? Its really awful, I can barely touch my toes without bending my legs, and even when i touch them my back is really arched, while my hips are almost pointing straight upwards, like when standing straight. This slows down my work with F1, since most ab workouts require a certain level of leg flexibility.

Please give me notes such us:

-when streching, should I feel the pain(it doesnt look like muscle streching pain that I get when stretching other muscles, more like my nerves or something hurt) or should I stretch in comfortable position without any pain.

Thanks in advance!

jakralj said:

Can someone give me a way to increase my leg flexibility? Its really awful, I can barely touch my toes without bending my legs, and even when i touch them my back is really arched, while my hips are almost pointing straight upwards, like when standing straight. This slows down my work with F1, since most ab workouts require a certain level of leg flexibility.

 

 

Please give me notes such us:

-when streching, should I feel the pain(it doesnt look like muscle streching pain that I get when stretching other muscles, more like my nerves or something hurt) or should I stretch in comfortable position without any pain.

 

Thanks in advance!

The most important thing is to stretch hard, and stretch consistently: pretty much the same as with building strength.

Some people say you only need to stretch once a week. Personally I find that I need 2-3 sessions a week to make any real progress. 

You should feel pain while stretching. However, there's a bit more too it than simply 'it should hurt'. There's two kinds of pain you may encounter when stretching. The 'stretching sensation', which is the pain you feel when you're stretching the muscle but not damaging it, will hurt, but it won't be a sharp or searing pain. When you bend over with straight legs and relax your back, your body-weight should be enough to elicit a stretching sensation in your hamstrings. This is the sort of sensation that you're looking for. If you feel a very sharp/searing pain, that means you're stretching to hard and you're actually damaging the muscle. Don't be too worried, though; it's hard to get to the point where you're actually damaging yourself unless you're doing an extremely intense stretch, or very suddenly increase the pressure. 

You should not feel pain while stretching, I am sorry. You should feel moderate to intense tension, but no pain. In "the business" we call this "mild to moderate discomfort"

For specific stretching advice, your absolute best resource will be "stretching and flexibility" by Kit Laughlin. You'll have to buy it from his website, http://pandf.com.au/store/cart.php

It is not sold on Amazon.

Joshua Naterman said:

You should not feel pain while stretching, I am sorry. You should feel moderate to intense tension, but no pain. In "the business" we call this "mild to moderate discomfort"

For specific stretching advice, your absolute best resource will be "stretching and flexibility" by Kit Laughlin. You'll have to buy it from his website, http://pandf.com.au/store/cart.php

It is not sold on Amazon.

Call it "tension" or "discomfort" if you want. The fact of the matter is, it hurts.

Hari_Seldon said:

Call it "tension" or "discomfort" if you want. The fact of the matter is, it hurts.

OP-- Think 'cramp' pain from localised tension, not 'tear muscle and force it to stretch' pain.

'Discomfort' is a nicely understated way to put it.

Yeah, 'discomfort' is a good word for it. Thinking about it again, I'd say Josh is right. As a beginner to stretching, you should be looking for "mild to moderate discomfort."

Hari_Seldon said:

 As a beginner to stretching,

*That's* really the bit missing from the good advice from these two above. You will with time and experience learn what 'good' tension and cramps feel like and what is wrong and counterproductive. It's easy to take for granted that everyone knows the context and learning process surrounding what you're talking about

Second on the Kit Laughlin material btw. It's very solid stuff, hope I get a chance to meet him next time I'm in Oz.

Charm said:

*That's* really the bit missing from the good advice from these two above. You will with time and experience learn what 'good' tension and cramps feel like and what is wrong and counterproductive. It's easy to take for granted that everyone knows the context and learning process surrounding what you're talking about

 

Second on the Kit Laughlin material btw. It's very solid stuff, hope I get a chance to meet him next time I'm in Oz.

I think that Kit will tell you the same thing about pain that I did. Sadly, it is very difficult for words to express how injury feels, and most people will have at least one experience with how doing a little too much really feels.

Now, as your body adapts to stretching over the course of the first serious year or two, you will find that you can put much more tension on the tissues without experiencing pain. The tension will be MUCH higher, and you will be more uncomfortable  because you will be sweating from the amount of energy you are expending to stay in that position, but that is not truly pain. It is effort combined with high tension, and the difference is that with effort and tension you're sitting there thinking "OH GOD... When is my set over? Breathe... breathe..." but you are never thinking "Oh god, that was no good..."

Of course this stuff is semantical, but hopefully the OP can read this and understand that they should always have 100% confidence that whatever he/she is feeling in the tissues is safe. At first, this won't be much tension, but slow careful exploration will allow everyone to learn what they can handle, and what they need, without hurting themselves.

Like strength training, a slow and steady approach is the best way to stretch.

Okay thanks for answer, I just forgot to ask how often and for how long should I stretch?

Should it be like every other day, or every day?

And should I do something like one minute hold in stretch, than 1 min rest, or maybe like 5 mins of stretch?

Ideally you will stretch several times per day. These sessions are NOT focused on reaching new personal bests, they are for USING the full range of motion that you currently have.

It is really impossible to give you a real stretching prescription without evaluating you in person, because you may need more stretching on one side than the other, etc etc.

However, in Kit Laughlin's system you will also do 1-2 hard stretching sessions per week. THESE are where you go for new ROM. Ideally he will have you use partner stretching that uses aspects of PNF to enhance the results, but you can also do the stretches by yourself.

Something the above posters have hinted at but not mentioned outright, is that you should feel the stretch in your muscles, not in your tendons or ligaments.  For example you probably should bend your knees to touch your toes, initially.

Bipocni said:

Something the above posters have hinted at but not mentioned outright, is that you should feel the stretch in your muscles, not in your tendons or ligaments.  For example you probably should bend your knees to touch your toes, initially.

You will want to do both bent leg AND straight leg posterior chain stretching.

Straight leg is straddle pike and pike, whether sitting or standing.

Bent leg is most effective with supine PNF style hamstring stretches (laying on the back), and works best with a strap.

I recommend bent leg for 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps (or whatever feels good to you, might be 3 reps at first), followed by a 2 minute hold in a straight leg position.

It is very, very important to stretch your hip flexors in between every single stretch, and to stretch them for the same amount of time as you were stretching the posterior chain.

You do not want to lock your body into anterior pelvic tilt. You see this in many, many gymnasts and it is a bad thing. Look up ankylosing spondylitis and spondylothesis for more info on one of the more serious injuries this sets you up for.

Joshua Naterman said:

You will want to do both bent leg AND straight leg posterior chain stretching.

 

Straight leg is straddle pike and pike, whether sitting or standing.

 

Bent leg is most effective with supine PNF style hamstring stretches (laying on the back), and works best with a strap.

I always do these in a lunge position; I bring my chest to my front knee, then try to extend my leg all the way. I like doing it that way so that my whole bodyweight can be used for the stretch. Is there an advantage to doing it on your back with a strap?

Joshua Naterman said:

 

 

It is very, very important to stretch your hip flexors in between every single stretch, and to stretch them for the same amount of time as you were stretching the posterior chain.

 

 

I am curious, when you say posterior chain, does that mean folding at the hips? Should bending over with back straight/rounded and or legs straight/bent all be followed up with hip flexor stretches? Or does it only apply to when doing pike stretches?

gohei_ said:

I am curious, when you say posterior chain, does that mean folding at the hips? Should bending over with back straight/rounded and or legs straight/bent all be followed up with hip flexor stretches? Or does it only apply to when doing pike stretches?

If the muscles you are stretching include the hamstrings and/or lower back, you should consider hip flexor stretching. Certainly after any hamstring stretching, because they are directly opposing muscle groups in in terms of hip rotation. If you loosen the hamstrings and don't immediately loosen the hip flexors, they are tight relative to the hamstrings, and this will put you into more anterior tilt.

Joshua Slocum said:

I always do these in a lunge position; I bring my chest to my front knee, then try to extend my leg all the way. I like doing it that way so that my whole bodyweight can be used for the stretch. Is there an advantage to doing it on your back with a strap?

Well, it's a lot easier to control the force you're using during a PNF stretch when your whole body is not laying on top of the leg, but when someone is pretty strong (as you are) this might be more of an individual decision.

The one major advantage to the supine stretch is in terms of active flexibility, because you can (and should be) using the hip flexors to pull the leg into more hip flexion, and we know that active flexibility is what we really want.

So, if I were going to make categories I would put the version you describe into a passive stretch category, which certainly has its uses, and I would put the supine version with strap into the active stretch category, since I would want this to be more of a facilitated stretch.

A facilitated stretch is a contract-relax stretch, but you only use about 20% of full force. This is the same thing you do in muscle energy techniques, with the difference being that when you pull your leg into the stretch (after the contraction) you do so with your own leg muscles, not with the strap. The strap is there for the contraction, not the stretch that comes after.

Make sense?

Stretching Scientifically and Relax into Stretch are good books too. Plus I made posts on flexibility on other people's thread asking the same question.

I'm told you don't stretch the lower back at all. Hip stretches rather. Back stretches could turn you into Christopher Reeves, and nobody wants that.

Hip flexors are the most difficult to stretch - I was experimenting doing hip stretches on the bench. The same kind of bench used in weight lifting gyms. Go into an incomplete front split on the bench, grab underneath the bench and pull yourself towards the floor. The tension should challenge the hip flexors. Now doesn't that feel nice.