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Jukka

Started by Cory Fair, April 27, 2013 · 13 Replies · 23 Views

Cory Fair

Nic, Cole,

 

Coach asked me to post this and ask your opinion on whether his cutting Jukka off seems objectively fair. I have copied in the relevant emails per this request.

 

Email 1

 

 

Jukka,
 
I would like to start off by noting that both Cole and I think quite highly of you.  In fact, Cole has gone so far as to personally vouch for you in an effort to ease my mind regarding some of the concerns I have which I will now addresss.
 
As you are already somewhat aware, Gymnastic Bodies has had significant issues with Ido Portal in the past regarding his failure to properly credit GB materials that he formally presented in his workshops as his own.  This is the primary reason that Ido Portal has not made a US presentation in a number of years; legal action was about to be taken against him regarding his improper and unauthorized use of GB copyrighted materials.  When it was noted that your facility would be hosting another seminar with Ido this coming June, there was great concern regarding Ido once again gaining access to GB materials.
 
As Ido Portal has positioned himself as a direct competitor to GB, and in combination with his history of inappropriate behavior, your association with both Ido Portal and Gymnastic Bodies simultaneously is an area of unacceptable concern.  Ido Portal coming in once more for a workshop at your facility appeared to confirm that being associated with him in a long term business relationship was something that you were actively pursuing.  Given Ido Portal's past behavior with GB, that would however unfortunately preclude your also having an ongoing relationship with GB which is why your H1 payment was refunded.
 
If I have been premature in my decision or inaccurate in anyway, I would be happy to hear any thoughts you have.  I do indeed want to be equitable in this matter, however I would also like to minimize the potential for future issues with Ido Portal as well.
 
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

 

Response

 

 

Coach Sommer,
 
thank you for your letter.  Hopefully things that I now write back to you stays between you and me(and Cole) and clears things out.
 
First of all, I must say that I appreciate you and GB very highly and it is too bad that things against GB and Ido are what they are. 
 
I am aware the situation between Ido and GB, though I have decided to stay out of it what so ever. I believe it is not my war, but unfortunately I have had this same discussion with Ido also, when I helped Cole to promote your seminar in my website. I told Ido that I wish not to take any sides and just want to learn from multiple sources. Some of Ido's own things(?) are very interesting and some of them are copies from you and I know this and have told that to people who have came to my own workshops. I always tell people from whom I have learned something and never promote them as my own things! 
 
So, I understand your concern, but I do not have any deeper relation to Ido and I am not doing 'Ido Portal seminars' by myself nor at any situation give any information to him learnt by you.  However I have my own courses which are combination of everything that I know. I have being practicing bodyweight - weightlifting- powerlifting and kettlebell lifting and using this knowledge as I think is the best way. A lot from you and hopefully that is ok?  Last time Ido was here, there was 10 people. I have done lot of work to bring the knowledge to people about BW -training and it shows good improvement. Now there is 40 people coming. I was also contacted by Finnish Gymnastic Association and they want me to come to show my stuff to them. So I would think, that when I teach people GST and let them know where I got the knowledge, they want to go to your seminars as well and I would happily to promote you in the future. 
 
BUT I wish not to take sides, because I already have stupid situation against Finnish CrossFit-people because of my relation to certain people...  with that situation and this matter, I think that I have not done anything wrong. If I know certain people, that should not affect to anything. 
 
So in a nut shell, I wish you re-consider the situation and I can assure that I will not give any info to Ido Portal. I am doing my own thing and hopefully can operate such people as you in the future also!  If you wish to come to Finland again, I will be ready to help you and I think I am the person, who will get the seminars full, because my company is quite well known and people know our high standards. 
 
with best regards,
 
Jukka

 

Email 2

 

 

Jukka,
 
- Thank you for the kind thoughtful response.  I would also prefer for the situation to be different as I personally invested many years in the training and grooming of Ido.  However things are what they are.
 
- It is simply not wise business for GB to actively do business with a facility that actively does so much work with Ido Portal. 
 
- If at some time in the future your situation changes, please let me know and we can at that time re-examine our options.  
 
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

 

 

Response

 

 

Coach Sommer,
 
ok, I understand although I must say that it is very unfortunate for me, because like many others who were at your seminar here in Finland, we only want to learn as much as possible. Only difference between me and them is that I have helped to organize the events or brought some equipments( like I did to your seminar). I gain no money expect I get to go free, but the reality is that I probably loose money because of the finnish taxes.
 
Anyhow, I just wanted you to know, that I am only one of the many people who follow different people who can give us the best possible knowledge. What comes doing business, I can, wish and want to help you, Ido and other people,  but like I wrote, I do also my own thing and do not wish to take sides in this matter or in anything else.  I keep on practicing and I learnt so much good things from your seminar, HS1 and F1! 
 
Btw I purchased Foundation serie 1-5. If you decide not to give me F2,3,4 and 5, please refund the rest of the money. 
 
I wish you all the best,
 
Jukka

 

Cory Fair

My feeling is that this is fair as Jukka is aware of the details of the situation with Ido. It seems odd he admits to knowing Ido has ripped off Coach, yet frames it as a "war" that he doesn't want to get in the middle of. I wouldn't invite someone to my house that I knew robbed my neighbor and simply claim I didn't want to take sides.

Nic Branson

I dunno, I understand the issues but at the same time I almost feel like by stepping back we are taking away an opportunity to directly compete against Ido with the seminar attendees who try both us and him.

Business is messy especially in certain cases but I don't want it to seem like are backing down from any competing product...ever.

Nic Branson
Cory Fair said:

My feeling is that this is fair as Jukka is aware of the details of the situation with Ido. It seems odd he admits to knowing Ido has ripped off Coach, yet frames it as a "war" that he doesn't want to get in the middle of. I wouldn't invite someone to my house that I knew robbed my neighbor and simply claim I didn't want to take sides.

Good way to put it also. The industry is rife with that sadly.

Coach Sommer

My concern was that I would once again be personally training someone (as I did with Ido) who would then in turn take what I had taught them and pass it directly on to Ido; thereby multiplying an already annoying situation.

Cory Fair
Nic Branson said:

I dunno, I understand the issues but at the same time I almost feel like by stepping back we are taking away an opportunity to directly compete against Ido with the seminar attendees who try both us and him.

Business is messy especially in certain cases but I don't want it to seem like are backing down from any competing product...ever.

 

What benefits would we reap in directly competing with Ido versus focusing internally on the best website/forum/products in the world and then promoting them with a solid marketing strategy?

Nic Branson
Coach Sommer said:

My concern was that I would once again be personally training someone who would then in turn take what I had taught them and pass it directly onto to Ido.

I'm not arguing this at all. I share this concern, just bugs the hell out of me.

Nic Branson
Cory Fair said:

What benefits would we reap in directly competing with Ido versus focusing internally on the best website/forum/products in the world and then promoting them with a solid marketing strategy?

We gain the chance to convince any of the people who seek out his methods that we are better. I'm not sure it is worth it, as said above just bugs the crap out of me.

Nic Branson

Part is perception that he can say we did not want to compete against him and left. But not really worth it.

Cory Fair
Nic Branson said:

We gain the chance to convince any of the people who seek out his methods that we are better. I'm not sure it is worth it, as said above just bugs the crap out of me.

 

I believe we're all agreed on that last part. However, I'm not convinced from a strategic point of view that this would hamper Ido's business much if at all for the effort on our part.

Cory Fair
Nic Branson said:

Part is perception that he can say we did not want to compete against him and left. But not really worth it.

 

That also assumes Jukka tells Ido about this conversation.

Nic Branson

True and True.

Nic Branson

Honestly, I am not sure it is worth the effort. I would rather focus on other seminars and material. I'm hoping to gain some traction with some RKC's and more intelligent cross fitters.

Cole Dano

- I don't believe there is a 'right' answer to this problem. Nor do I think it's the last time we will have this kind of thing happen, and it might not even always be over Ido.

 

What happens if a facility has Coach and Al Kavaldo do seminars for example?

 

- We live in a naturally dualistic world. Here the desire for a totally free network is competing with contained systems of education.

 

There were similar issue all the time in yoga. I tried walking a line between a few yoga systems, and in the end realised, it just wasn't possible to do that and be accepted by any of them.

 

In life you can't always be friends with everyone. Sometime we have to make choices, like it or not. In the same way you can only attend one university at a time. You can't go to Harvard and Stanford at the same time.  

 

- All we can do is have a Vision Statement that addresses this situation and stick to it. If we are looking to breed a GB based GST network, it may be we can't allow facilities we work with to allow other body weight 'experts' in. It just needs to be made clear and be consistently applied.

 

- Ido is a special case. I was unfortunate enough to hear the brunt of his BS against Coach and GB. Even then it took me a few weeks to realise the magnitude of the lies he was telling me. Only after taking it upon myself to investigate them on my own did I see he was telling outright lies and fabrications.

 

I try to be as tolerant as possible, but simply refuse to deal with anyone who knowingly lies and manipulates.

 

I honestly don't know why anyone would want to invite Ido back, as he is very hard to deal with and satisfy, but at the same time, he seems to have power over people.