Band Deloads vs. Progressions

Wanted to hear a gymnasts point of view on the benefits of using progressions to build to a movement (e.g. tuck FL, straddle FL, etc.) versus using bands to deload the specific movement being built towards. I know that many use bands in their iron cross training and such, but it seems like they aren't as common for building many of the fundamentals.

I was asked about this the other day and I really didn't have a good answer. Can anybody provide some insight here?

- Chris

Generally speaking, unassisted exercises are preferable to assisted exercises, because it helps you learn to manipulate your weight, whereas adding something like a resistance band or counterweight will change the dynamic significantly. Part of the issue is that for more advanced elements, like a maltese, there isn't any good way to progressively decrease the body's leverage. For levers and planches, this is easy: you just use an easier body position (e.g. tucked or straddled). However, for a maltese, changing the body position doesn't make the movement easier, it just shifts the focus of the exercise. 

For crosses and inverted crosses, you can do this to an extent by putting your hands through the straps (so that support is now on your forearm or wrist rather than your palm). You can also buy special ring attachments to do this without scratching up your forearms.

What about tie a rubber band around your waist for maltese? That will knock some weight off. 

Interesting. Wouldn't the adjustment to the weight dynamic that you mention decrease as the assistance that the bands provided decreased (e.g. lower strength band)? It seems that as the assistance approaches 0 that the weight dynamic altering would be approaching 0 as well. Am I missing something in how that functions?

- Chris

chobbs said:

Interesting. Wouldn't the adjustment to the weight dynamic that you mention decrease as the assistance that the bands provided decreased (e.g. lower strength band)? It seems that as the assistance approaches 0 that the weight dynamic altering would be approaching 0 as well. Am I missing something in how that functions?

 

- Chris

This is correct. But considering that it could take years to go from a 60# band to no band, that's a lot of training.

Hari_Seldon said:

This is correct. But considering that it could take years to go from a 60# band to no band, that's a lot of training.

We appear to be looking at years of progressions for the foundation series regardless.

Anyways, I ask since I didn't have an answer for the person who questioned me about this approach vs. the bands in the actual goal movement and I couldn't come up with anything that would sway me to either side. I had hoped there was some good reason for one or the other.

- Chris

chobbs said:

We appear to be looking at years of progressions for the foundation series regardless.

 

Anyways, I ask since I didn't have an answer for the person who questioned me about this approach vs. the bands in the actual goal movement and I couldn't come up with anything that would sway me to either side. I had hoped there was some good reason for one or the other.

 

- Chris

The point is that those years of training add up to more than just strength. Spending 4 years working with your full bodyweight is going to give you a much better sense for working with your bodyweight than spending 4 years working with assistance, even if towards the end of those four years the assistance starts to become lighter. 

Beyond this, there's also the simple fact that working with assistance from bands or counterweights is a hassle and requires extra equipment. 

Edit: in case this wasn't clear, you're probably going to develop strength at around the same rate either way. But  in the same amount of time, the full-bodyweight progressions will give you a better sense for movement than using bands will. 

Thanks Hari. About the only thing I could come up with when having this discussion was using a variety of movements via the progression approach was more neurologically beneficial than mastering a single motion - which is what it sounds like you are referring to. But, aside from anecdotally, it seems hard to prove that statement.

- Chris

A couple of years back I was using deload bands working on my FL for 8 weeks i only used deload bands and the result was bad. After 8 weeks I tried a FL without the deload band and I had gotten weaker! .

A good/fun thing with th deload bands is trying out the next progression you are working on together with filming yourself. You can get the feel of the position your body has to be in.

I did this with straddle PL with the deload band around my waist to get the feel of how much I had to lean forward to get in the right position. 

I am not a gymnast but just somebody who enjoys GST. However, I did experiment quite a bit with rubber bands (actually bungee cords and bicycle inner tubes) to assist in ring training and planche training. I did not like it that much. However, about a year and a half ago I build myself a dream machine (ring pulley system that attaches the rings to your hips thereby reducing the weight that you have to move by about 50%, and moving your center of gravity closer to your shoulders when in a horizontal position; it took me all of 15 minutes to build, so a trivial effort). I used it for more than a year very intensively, because I really liked how it allowed me to move half my body weight in positions that were normally way out of my strength range (maltese, victorian, iron cross etc.). I don’t think training with the DM got me any closer to a ring maltese or victorian, but that was not my goal. However, in terms of neuromuscular training it was very beneficial for me (maybe not for someone else, though). If specific moves are the goal, then the one movement that can be trained very effectively with a DM is the iron cross (and butterfly). Simply  by being in a vertical position, it allows you to get the fine points of the IC with about 50% of your weight and then increase the load to 100% in whatever small increments you want. I tried that for a while and it worked beautifully (caveat: the end point of that particular training curve requires attaching 100% of your BW to your waist).  For the same (bio mechanical) reason, it works quite well for ring push ups. For FL and BL training I did not find the DM all that effective, because it does too little to train your core and reduces the lever between your center of gravity and your shoulders  by even more than 50% (because with your hips attached to the rings your center of gravity is moved closer to your shoulders). There, you are much better off training your core plus following the BtGB progressions (Foundation?).