5 Slow Bar Muscle-ups (no hip pike) + Wide Grip Attempt

8 weeks of using BtGB's information!

I think the shoulder width reps were very good quality. Opinions?
 

The wide grip attempt wasn't too good though. A lot of hip pike.

Those are nice! A point to make it a bit more difficult but cleaner would be to lean less in the dip phase. Work on russian dips and straight bar dips in order to improve this strength. Other than that, they look great!

Looking good, well done!

If you want to eliminate the forward lean, you will need to raise your legs in front of you into an L position as you rise. you will feel where this has to happen, it is automatic if you think about keeping an upright torso. As you get very vertical this becomes a very different movement than what you are doing, because when you don't lean forward you have to rely much more on your triceps and much less on your chest.

Your basic muscle up is looking good!

Nicely done.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks guys! I'm going to ease into the wide grip from now on.

first of all. Your MUs look great!

I've experienced the same sensation as josh. if you try to keep your uperbody upright in the dipping phase, you have to
pike your hips. Otherwise you would have to lean on the dip.

here is my question: Is it possible to do a shoulder width slow/strict muscle up without piking the hips and without the lean
in the dipping phase? If not is it prefered to
a) try to hold your body as straight as possible the whole time (and pike the hips while the transition)
b) never pike the hips but lean forward like in the video?

P5yx said:

first of all. Your MUs look great!

I've experienced the same sensation as josh. if you try to keep your uperbody upright in the dipping phase, you have to

pike your hips. Otherwise you would have to lean on the dip.

here is my question: Is it possible to do a shoulder width slow/strict muscle up without piking the hips and without the lean

in the dipping phase? If not is it prefered to

a) try to hold your body as straight as possible the whole time (and pike the hips while the transition)

b) never pike the hips but lean forward like in the video?

You can't keep a straight body AND no forward lean during a muscle up, because your center of mass has to stay directly between the attachment points of your hands' false grip. This requires the body to change its conformation (3D shape in space) to redistribute its mass so that the center of gravity is inside the base, which is where you're gripping. You can thank Mr. Newton for that one.

Option A is much, much, much more difficult. Much more difficult.  You will slowly pike the hips as you move through the transition, and you could either unpike them OR keep them in the L as you rise up above the transition.

I can do option b, but definitely NOT option a. If you can do deep dips with a straight body, and you can do the transition, you can do option b.

Either way, that's about as hard as a muscle up gets without keeping the arms straight and doing a Butterfly mount!

Thanks! I think it's possible for me to do it with much less lean and no pike than I did (my regular/L-sit russian dips are very weak), but I'm not sure about zero lean as well as no pike.

One thing I have noticed though, is that at the top of the pull-up (with the bar at the lower chest / upper stomach), your body is leaning back slightly, at about 5-10 degrees. That's because to get around the bar you must go behind it, so your legs will also go in front of it (not necessarily piked) to balance it out.

I think the transition/dip could be done with zero lean, like Andreas Aguilar on rings, but it would require some pretty specific, dedicated strength in that movement

this is the only move i've seen where performing these on rings are easier than doing them on a bar. i wonder why that is aside from the obviousness of the rings allowing you to go "through" where the bar would be.

thx josh! would a mu with all time straight upper body be like a triceps extension or should the ellbows lift before the dip

like in a "normal" mu?

Jono said:

Thanks! I think it's possible for me to do it with much less lean and no pike than I did (my regular/L-sit russian dips are very weak), but I'm not sure about zero lean as well as no pike.

 

One thing I have noticed though, is that at the top of the pull-up (with the bar at the lower chest / upper stomach), your body is leaning back slightly, at about 5-10 degrees. That's because to get around the bar you must go behind it, so your legs will also go in front of it (not necessarily piked) to balance it out.

 

I think the transition/dip could be done with zero lean, like Andreas Aguilar on rings, but it would require some pretty specific, dedicated strength in that movement

On a single bar, a no forward lean MU would have to execute a difficult triceps dip or triceps press just like trying to do a no lean narrow grip MU on rings. The Aguilar-esque MU requires a wide grip on rings.

I think a no pike bar muscle-up would result in a backwards lean of 5-10 degrees (with the legs going in front of the bar with a body slant like this: \ ), but that would be very tough. If you did allowed the legs to pike / go into an L, you would be able to stay more vertical

ok so the ideal muscle up on a bar should look like jonos i guess right?

Maybe a bit slower. I've slowed then down more since that video!

ok thx for clearification.

besides what progressions did you use? i really love your bar MUs. One of the best i've seen on bars so far.

When I first tired a minimal pike slow bar muscle-up in February, I'd never trained specifically for it. I put this down to high pulling strength. Some Foundation Series guys are saying to master RC progressions and skills like muscle-ups will come without specific training, so I guess a similar thing happened to me. I didn't do RC though, I did weighted chin-ups and assisted OAC. I don't think dip strength is as important for the muscle-up as people think. My russian dip strength is nothing special. I think mastering russian/L-sit dips would be for someone who wants to learn the no lean muscle-up.

Besides good pulling strength, the only exercise I can see as worthwhile is slow false grip pull-ups for maximum height 

Jono said:

When I first tired a minimal pike slow bar muscle-up in February, I'd never trained specifically for it. I put this down to high pulling strength. Some Foundation Series guys are saying to master RC progressions and skills like muscle-ups will come without specific training, so I guess a similar thing happened to me. I didn't do RC though, I did weighted chin-ups and assisted OAC. I don't think dip strength is as important for the muscle-up as people think. My russian dip strength is nothing special. I think mastering russian/L-sit dips would be for someone who wants to learn the no lean muscle-up.

 

Besides good pulling strength, the only exercise I can see as worthwhile is slow false grip pull-ups for maximum height 

Simple, direct, logical, and clearly works. I like it