shoulder pain/discomfort while performing HS/PE>iM1

I've come to notice that when I grip the stick that I have pre-taped at my comfortable width of shoulder flexion, I will -sometimes- depending on execution get a discomfort bordering on pain in my left shoulder, in the middle of the deltoid.

right smack in the middle of the delt. 

sometimes, my arm will want to continue backwards as if i'm performing a shoulder dislocate and i know this is incorrect. is there anything in particular that I need to do to keep my arm from rotating towards a shoulder dislocate motion? because this is obviously happening from a execution level on my part.

what do i do in this case? 

First off, what you are feeling is likely the supraspinatus tendon being impinged briefly. Could also be the bursa, but either way it sounds like you're trying to use your deltoids and rotators more than your traps.

Watch the video carefully.

You want to elevate the shoulders, but there is also an element of shoulder rotation as the bar goes overhead. Watch the elbows closely and you will see it. You may not use the exact same amount of rotation, but you will need to find the place that is comfortable for you. You do not continue to rotate, you simply maintain the correct amount of rotation for your body and let your traps move the shoulder blades back, with arms in tow. This is how you achieve the final position.

The other thing that I have found to be of major importance is that you need to feel the traps working, particularly the middle and upper traps. For me, this is difficult, but when I get it right there is absolutely no pressure in the shoulder socket at all, and everything is super smooth. 

Does that make sense? Your deltoids lift the bar above the head, and the traps are working at the same time, but moving behind the head is all traps. 

This will take some practice, but I think you will see what I mean. Very careful observation of the video will show this in action.

you're the man, Josh. thanks again, as always! 

i'll film myself and see the different for myself. so what you're saying is i should pull my hands backwards the exact same way I would pull my hands in a handstand? only im substituting the load of my entire body with the load of the bar? 

....I'm gonna go try this right now. #runsoff

Joshua Naterman said:

First off, what you are feeling is likely the supraspinatus tendon being impinged briefly. Could also be the bursa, but either way it sounds like you're trying to use your deltoids and rotators more than your traps.

 

Watch the video carefully.

 

You want to elevate the shoulders, but there is also an element of shoulder rotation as the bar goes overhead. Watch the elbows closely and you will see it. You may not use the exact same amount of rotation, but you will need to find the place that is comfortable for you. You do not continue to rotate, you simply maintain the correct amount of rotation for your body and let your traps move the shoulder blades back, with arms in tow. This is how you achieve the final position.

 

The other thing that I have found to be of major importance is that you need to feel the traps working, particularly the middle and upper traps. For me, this is difficult, but when I get it right there is absolutely no pressure in the shoulder socket at all, and everything is super smooth. 

 

Does that make sense? Your deltoids lift the bar above the head, and the traps are working at the same time, but moving behind the head is all traps. 

 

This will take some practice, but I think you will see what I mean. Very careful observation of the video will show this in action.

okay, this is what keeps happening. I'm keeping my iPad with Muscle System Pro while I was doing the movements to know I was getting the right engagement but this is what i'm getting 

i keep either retracting my scapula and feeling it in the rhomboids, trying to pull the stick apart or the feeling in my delts that i'm telling you about. 

what....in the world is going on here? It's like i'm either completely lost and the position will "magically" not give me pain anymore or my body just doesn't want to do what i'm telling it to. :/ (deep breath)

when i'm getting close to vertical, should my elbows rotate inwards(in the left arm, it spins towards my right and my right arm spins towards my left) or the opposite? or neutral as I raise? this is where my body is loosing orientation

You internally rotate as you are approaching the overhead position. Your inner elbows will go from facing each other (or facing backwards slightly) to facing somewhat forward. This is what I assume you mean when you say "rotating inward."

When I do these correctly, I primarily feel the tension in a web that goes from the middle and bottom of my neck out to the middle of my shoulder blade (which is part of middle traps and upper traps) on the spine of the scapula. The tension going out towards the shoulders is the key to be feeling. I don't feel anything going from the inner edge of the shoulder blade up to my head, and I dont feel too much in the lower traps unless I bend way forward (which, of course, makes things more difficult).

I am pulling apart slightly, but much less than I used to. I think that you have to have a certain amount of "pulling apart" in order to make the shoulders move correctly, but not as much as I originally thought.

I've been doing these since the day H1 came out, and I figured out the last bits of making these effortless (in terms of form) yesterday.

Most likely, I just wasn't strong enough (or my trap recruitment was too screwed up) to be able to do them exactly correctly. This came with some time. I was performing these every day, and i still do.

excellent. then what i was doing before was correct. i filmed myself and I was holding the stick far too wide due to the dramatic increase in mobility in the past sessions. I moved an entire 4 finger lenghts and a smidget over a 1/4 inch. once i checked myself in the mirror and the video i noticed that it's just my extreme lack of mobility. I notice that the "handstand line" is so....much different than what i thought it felt with my shoulders being as tight as they were. 

Just my findings: if you really want to feel the traps working try to do the exercise with to separate (light) dumbbells. This is off coarse a lot harder sinds you cannot pull the stick apart (so the shoulders will also not rotate). You can google YWTL raises and this is the Y part of the exercise but seated!

This exercise doesn't replace the iM but makes you more aware of the feeling that Joshua described.   

after revisiting this thread, I noticed that mechanically, your body does very wierd things to compensate. 

mobility kind of stagnated on this PE due to personal compensations and they finally sorted themselves, shoulder impingement is hopefully be a thing of the past. it's nice to not get those wierd pains in your shoulder and have to step back from training. this lesson opened my eyes that not only does over-training exist but injury cause by faulty mechanics are also something to keep in mind. watch the videos a zillion times, video yourself, watch it a zillion times and compare both videos, a zillion times. 

to a GB Coach or knowledgeable athlete, would you prefer me to keep iM's 1-2, 3-4 in warm up once working dislocates? or will the dislocates suffice?

Keep them in your warmup; but with reduced volume so that your primary focus is on the latest iM.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

Keep them in your warmup; but with reduced volume so that your primary focus is on the latest iM.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer