Tumbling with shoes v.s. tumbling without shoes

Hey guys, 

I wanted to know your opinions on training tumbling with or without shoes. 

Gymnasts compete without shoes and also train without shoes. Makes sense.

Cheerleaders compete with shoes and of the many cheerleaders I know, they all train with shoes (except when on a trampoline or tumble track since it can damage the equipment).

From my small bit of research, very good cheerleaders say that they can tumble even better when they take the shoes off. They can go higher, rebound more, etc. 

Now, the question I have is what would happen if you put shoes onto developed gymnasts? I presume there would be a short period of time that they would have to get used to the shoes, but I wonder how well they would be able to tumble. 

QUESTION: All things being equal, would the gymnast who has trained their whole life barefoot and then got used to shoes be worse at tumbling than a cheerleader who has trained with shoes their whole life? 

I looked up some more information and found this interesting blog post: http://cheerleadingdaily.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/training-barefoot/

The author (unclear if female or male) who is a cheerleading coach says that she/he wants her/his athletes to learn skills without shoes but only practice skills they already can do with shoes.

Here is a quote:

"If we are working on strictly skill development, I do not mind letting a student tumble without shoes when working on a skill that they would otherwise need a spot on.  My rational is simple.  I would rather a student throw and land 50 tucks without shoes than stand in line for a spot and only get 10 repetitions with shoes on.  The athlete is working their tumbling specific muscles and getting stronger with each repetition, so more is better. "

Here is another interesting quote:

"Additionally, wearing shoes really does have a physically negative effect on a person’s tumbling.  A minor part of that comes from the extra few ounces of weight from each shoe.  The bigger part is that a person can jump higher by pushing all the way off their toes.  Shoes are not as flexible as bare feet.  The reduction in flexibility prevents a person from pushing off as far when wearing shoes as when jumping bare foot.  Both of the above physical differences are small, and probably not even noticeable when dealing with a very strong athlete with strong tumbling.  But when we are talking about someone who is just barely landing a skill, any small handicap can be the difference between landing cleanly or touching down."

Perhaps training your whole life with the extra bit of weight on the legs from the shoes conditions the athlete better (kind of light weighted clothes do for Super Saiyans?).

Perhaps training your whole life without shoes conditions the muscles connected to the toes better.

What are your observations and experiences? (any cheerleaders on these forums too?)

Thanks for reading and for the replies.

acrobatlegend said:

(...) the many cheerleaders I know (...)

LOL, show off!

If you knew them that well, you'd ask them to take off their shoes, but leave their hats on before tumbling...

I almost always tumble barefoot, even if I'm outside. Shoes feel bulky, interfere with your ability to feel the floor, and reduce ankle mobility. A pair of barefoot shoes might be ok to tumble in though; I've never tried it. 

Barefoot is perfect for spring floor, but on concrete, I prefer some kind of heel cushion, as it may overload Achilles tendons. 

seiyafan said:

Barefoot is perfect for spring floor, but on concrete, I prefer some kind of heel cushion, as it may overload Achilles tendons. 

You tumble from your heels?   Doesn't that hurt your knees? 

After a roundoff 

seiyafan said:

After a roundoff

What comes after the round off?

Hari_Seldon said:

What comes after the round off?

back tuck, back layout, etc... I was saying the impact of round off puts a lot of stress on heels. 

seiyafan said:

back tuck, back layout, etc... I was saying the impact of round off puts a lot of stress on heels. 

When you do a roundoff, do you land with the balls of your feet first, or do you rebound off of your heels?

Hari_Seldon said:

When you do a roundoff, do you land with the balls of your feet first, or do you rebound off of your heels?

Land with balls of my feet first. 

I think I was meant to say a lot of stress on Achilles tendons. Sorry if that was the confusion. 

It's really just a personal preference. The shoes gym shoes that cheerleaders wear are usually specially made dance shoes that have a split sole. The split sole will allow you to point your toe, and more importantly they let you articulate your foot which is good for rebounding. I like to do everything barefoot, but thats just me. If you think if you want to tumble in shoes, there are shoes specially made for gymnastics.  They're basically canvas slippers with a thin suede leather sole.  You can order then online for about $20-$30 US dollars. Some manufacturers may ask you to trace your foot on a piece of paper so they can get you a well fitting pair.