using rings for HBP PE1, PE5, PE6

For the HB PE1 exercise, I use my rings instead of a bar at hip height. Why? Because I have the rings set up, but no fixed bar or pb’s, and I like the fact that you can get your waste line below your hands when doing pups with rings. I also intend to do that for HB PE5 and PE6 (dips). I know that it makes the exercises (much) harder and progression slower, but that is fine with me. For mastery, I will check now and then to see whether I can do the number of required reps as shown in F1 with a fixed bar and with pb’s (I will have to go to a different location to do that). Just out of curiosity, is there any reason -that I am not aware of- to not use my rings?

The exercises and their corresponding iM are placed in the order they are for a reason (as a perusal of a few of the earlier threads will show).

Strength, ROM and strength through ROM are being gradually developed in a sequential order through the progressions

The key is that both PE and iM BOTH have to be mastered before progressing each stage

My guess would be that by substituting for ring versions you would be doing more advanced exercises that should not come at that point (read: possible injury and/or stagnation) 

Michael Taylor said:

Strength, ROM and strength through ROM are being gradually developed in a sequential order through the progressions

 

The key is that both PE and iM BOTH have to be mastered before progressing each stage

 

My guess would be that by substituting for ring versions you would be doing more advanced exercises that should not come at that point (read: possible injury and/or stagnation) 

I would agree for some of the other exercises (for example, the twisting squats, where I risk dislocating my right fibula at the knee). But possibly injury and/or stagnation with ring push ups and ring dips? Absolutely not. They have been part of my warm up routine for at least two years. As always with these type of questions we are looking at the individual case and in doing so trying to decide whether there is any harm done by (slightly) deviating from the general. With my limited understanding of how the Foundation program works exactly, I can see that pb dips target (and strengthens) the prime movers, while ring dips also requires other (secondary?) muscle groups to do the balancing. So my question can be phrased differently as follows. If I feel more than comfortable doing ring dips instead of pb dips because I am strong enough, what would be a good reason to not do ring dips (when pb dips are programmed), especially if I don’t have parallel bars?

if you are so comfortable with ring dips, it should be really easy to pass PB dips...

so I would just go to playground or gym once and demonstrate mastery and than you can work on later progressions.

XR dips will definitely be in later foundation work...just wait for F2

in the meantime(till F2 is available), if you demonstrated mastery of PB dips, I think you can work on XR dips...if you were unable to master PB dips, you definitely have no business doing XR dips.

FritsMB

Obviously, you are free to do whatever exercise you please 😊😊

If you are really that strong in those movements then you should be able to achieve mastery straight away and move on, so it would be a moot point.

However, you state in your post that:

". I know that it makes the exercises (much) harder and progression slower, but that is fine with me"

...which would suggest that you are not. 😉

If ring dips were the next progression in the HBP series, then I am sure that they would have been programmed there. They have not been and with the clear master plan behind Foundation I am sure there is a very good reason for that. They are a more advanced variation that require other prerequisites to have been developed first (such as ring support)

If you have all this along with the iM for that level, then you are unlikely to run into problems using rings for these stages.

But why are you spending time at these levels when it is a progressive programme? 😳

Spyro7800 beat me to it! 😊

Michael Taylor said:

FritsMB

Obviously, you are free to do whatever exercise you please

But why are you spending time at these levels when it is a progressive programme?

Because I do want to go through the F1 HB program starting at PE1. Especially the mobility part of the exercises are new to me and obviously part of a very well thought out whole. However, I do like to keep things simple by using what I have. Hence my question.  I was hoping that somebody else had also substituted rings for pb’s and could share his experience. I tested HB PE1 this morning using the staircase bannister and a crate to get my improvised push up bar at knee height when standing in front of it (i.e. a little higher than the guy in the HB PE1 demo video). In the past 4 weeks, using rings at knee height, I had reached a level of 4x(8 slow ring push ups + the iM). It turned out that with my improvised fixed bar, I could do the required mastery of 5x(15 slow bar push ups + iM) without loosing form. So, there you have it. One data point. In my case, four weeks of ring push ups (starting at 4 times 4) were enough to get me to the HB PE1 mastery level. This ives me high hopes for not having to get pb's once I get to the HB E4 part of the program. Thanks for taking time to try and answer my question. 

Rings should not be used until later in the series.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

Rings should not be used until later in the series.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I'd like to emphasize this. Many people think they can perform the movements in F1 with ease, but if you really break them down and look at the tempo, form, and tightness, then you have a completely different movement.

If you can do the movement perfectly on the rings, I can't stop you. Just be very conscious of your body.

Edit: I for one will be getting dip bars. Just sayin'.

Klaudius Petrulis said:

 Many people think they can perform the movements in F1 with ease, but if you really break them down and look at the tempo, form, and tightness, then you have a completely different movement.

Well, there is not one movement in F1 I could do as prescribed with ease when I started the program, so that does not apply to me; of course some of them came to me sooner than others. In any case, coach’s answer is very clear. He categorically does not want people to start deviating from the F1 program as designed. And I agree with him. If everybody felt free to start experimenting with the program in the manner suggested by my post, to then find that it did not work as expected, it could become quite chaotic and take a lot of work for coach and the moderators to try and find out what had gone wrong and then to set things straight.  The message is clear. If you want to use the F1 program to advance with your GST training while benefiting from the feedback provided by coach and the moderators on this Forum, then just discipline yourself and stick to the program literally. In my case that means that I have to be creative (which I am) and find a substitute for parallel bars where I can do my HB PE4 and PE5 training. Not a big deal. Of course, a couple of times a week, in the middle of the night, I will sneak upstairs and do some work on my beloved rings, but be assured that nobody here on this (Foundation 1) forum will hear about it.

FritsMB said:

... Of course, a couple of times a week, in the middle of the night, I will sneak upstairs and do some work on my beloved rings, but be assured that nobody here on this (Foundation 1) forum will hear about it.  ...

Sounds to me like there is going to be a late night party at Frits' house later this week that we should all crash!

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

Sounds to me like there is going to be a late night party at Frits' house later this week that we should all crash!

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

You're an evil, evil, man.

If inclement weather prevents me from working out  on the outdoor P bars a mile or so from my house then I am thinking I will use my rings with the straps as short as possible. Is this okay?

aiken54 said:

If inclement weather prevents me from working out  on the outdoor P bars a mile or so from my house then I am thinking I will use my rings with the straps as short as possible. Is this okay?

No.  It would be better to substitute something else that is stable; e.g. the back of dining chairs etc.

The whole purpose of the F1 course is to gradually increase the level of strength and neuromuscular activation required.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Okay will do. I just realized after my workout today that even 2.5 ft strap length makes a large difference in difficulty. But nothing close to the full instability of ring towers  

Thanks for the response Coach!

FritsMB said:

(...) do some work on my beloved rings

aiken54 said:

(...) I will use my rings

Coach Sommer said:

Sounds to me like there is going to be a late night party at Frits' house later this week that we should all crash!

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

So, after reading this, I made a quick trip to the health food store to stock up on the finest fruit juices and I baked some sugarless carrot cakes. Then ….. nothing. After three nights of lonely hours staring at my gently swinging rings, sharing my carrot cake with some of the house mice while waiting for my party to be crashed, I reached a new understanding of the true meaning of Foundation 1. So, hoping that the world is ready for it, I started to write. I already have the title (I know, Robert Pirsig went there first):

Zen and the art of Gymnastic Strength Training™

A tale of one man’s quest in search of proprioception and neuromuscular balance 

So you see, if you just let it happen, you can find your inspiration anytime, anywhere.