Manna on rings,possible?

As the title says... I saw Manna on paralletes/ floor, just wondering if its possible.

Good day!

No

No, not even with exploding triceps. 

Does anyone know why? 

Hard to lean on rings. 

Dillon has good explanation:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/4709-v-sit-and-manna-on-rings/#entry45669

seiyafan said:

Hard to lean on rings. 

You most certainly can lean on rings. 

If you read Dillon's post it will be apparent why a manna as done on floor and p-bars cannot be done on rings.  They would simply slide from under you since the force vector is not straight down on the rings.

I read Dilon's post, I think it possible... The problem in my opinion is just to enter it (maybe from victorian?) and of course you need incredible strength for it.

I think the main reason that no one tried it is because even a regular manna is rare

Yes. Relative to the hands on the rings. Otherwise the would move.

What about a high manna?  Getting a bit ridiculous here, but it's closer to vertical, more "stacked" so the weight would be closer to directly over the rings.

Arms would need to be angled. If you guys would read dillons post it is covered there. To do this I would be basically an inverted planche.

I read dillon's post... I think its possible in the physics aspect, the only thing there is a question mark above it is the strength needed to perform this skill.

Sorry for the bad English by the way

Daniel Burnham said:

If you read Dillon's post it will be apparent why a manna as done on floor and p-bars cannot be done on rings.  They would simply slide from under you since the force vector is not straight down on the rings.

All his post says is that the normal manna entry can not be done on rings. As mentioned in the same thread, it may be possible to swing into a manna. It also might be possible to lower into one from a handstand by inlocating the shoulders. Some circus artists are able to do this on rotating canes. 

I woul like to know what kind of strength is required for a manna seeing as from what I hear it isn't a common move even in the gymnastic world. Would it require more strength than say a Victorian? If not then I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to achieve on rings. The question is just simply how to get there.

I look forward o achieving one in the next 5 years so i can have sn ifea of tje strängare requiem myself.

I believe 75% of coach's students have a manna if I remember BtGB properly. So if you're referring to floor Manna, then I wouldn't say it's uncommon in the gymnastic world.

RandomHavoc said:

I believe 75% of coach's students have a manna if I remember BtGB properly. So if you're referring to floor Manna, then I wouldn't say it's uncommon in the gymnastic world.

Yes that is true however Coach said that he has not seen many other gymnasts perform such a move. It's uncommon in the gymnastic world but not in Coaches world. Coach is just a bo$$ like that;)

High manna is uncommon.  Manna really isn't terribly uncommon though not as common as planche or cross.  I have a friend that can do one one both floor and parallel bars and know several of the guys he trained with had it as well.

I wont comment too much more on here, but most of you probably have never been in a manna position to feel what the push into the floor is like.  From what I have felt spotted and what my friend says it is like pushing downward at an angle.  This would create a horizontal force vector which would more the rings since there is little resistance in this direction.  If you started to lean it would be like a victorian.  This might be possible and is what is basically a reverse planche.  The other option is maybe if you curled your body up enough you could stack the weight directly over the arms and have a force vector only in the downward position.  Basically this would be a nearly inlocated position which i'm not sure is anatomically possible.

Either way I'm not really inclined to do the math besides a basic analysis in my head and a simple diagram on the paper in front of me.  If any of you are interested you can surely learn statics and kinesiology to do the necessary leg-work.  I do feel your time would probably be better spend working on actually doing the manna rather than dreaming and making up moves.  Everyone claims they will have these things in just a few years.  I haven't seen it...

Daniel Burnham said:

I wont comment too much more on here, but most of you probably have never been in a manna position to feel what the push into the floor is like.  From what I have felt spotted and what my friend says it is like pushing downward at an angle.  This would create a horizontal force vector which would more the rings since there is little resistance in this direction.  If you started to lean it would be like a victorian.  This might be possible and is what is basically a reverse planche.  The other option is maybe if you curled your body up enough you could stack the weight directly over the arms and have a force vector only in the downward position.  Basically this would be a nearly inlocated position which i'm not sure is anatomically possible.

The sensation of pushing backwards comes from the fact that you must maintain a constant effort to keep your shoulders extended. There is no horizontal force on the floor. If you exert a net horizontal force on the floor, that means the floor exerts a net horizontal force on you. Which means you begin to move. 

Notice i didn't say net force.  In statics all forces add to 0.  Also I am considering the entry to the manna as part of it, though the body isn't static, the hand however is.

Personally I'd love to see it, but i think it would be a bit different than the floor one.  As I am definitely at the stage where I could even attempt one, I really cant give too much more info about how the shape could be modified without having to do analysis of several positions.

That's only when there is no friction right?

seiyafan said:

That's only when there is no friction right?

If you mean you would move when there is no friction then yes that is correct.  Easiest example of this is to push at an angle with your foot while sitting in a roller chair (what I am doing right now)  at a force where you don't move (not overcoming friction)

Daniel Burnham said:

Notice i didn't say net force.  In statics all forces add to 0.  Also I am considering the entry to the manna as part of it, though the body isn't static, the hand however is.

I agree completely. The MSH manna entry involves placing a backwards force on the floor. However, there are other ways to enter a manna that do not require a forward press.

Consider the final, static pose. Let us suppose that your hands exert a backwards force on the floor. As you mentioned, this means that a frictional force must exert a forwards force on your hands, since they are static. This also means that your body is exerting a backwards force on your hands. Which means your hands exert a forward force on your body. Since your body is not touching anything else, that means your body has to be accelerating. Since this is a static pose, this is a contradiction, and therefore the hand must not be exerting a backwards force on the floor.

The chair analogy has something that the manna analogy does not: two opposing points of contact. You do not move because your foot and the chair both experience a frictional force, and they oppose each other, canceling out. 

Ha yea the chair analogy wasn't good for the direct comparison to the manna, just an example of friction.

I agree with the physics of the final static position.  I suppose it could be lowered through a handstand though that would take some incredible strength on rings.  Now please don't make an electrical engineer re-live his intro engineering classes!