I 'm confused about HS/PE4

 I'm sorry for my ignorance but I 'm confused about HS/PE4. It's not iM element so I suppose it is for building shoulder flexion strength. It is 30s hold but I don't know in which part of the movement should I hold. In the video,when the bar is overhead hands are toutching the ground so it is not challenging. Please help me because I'm stucked.

 Another question is about the weight in HS/PE4 and HS/PE5. I read Coach's instructions for iM elements but I didn't find anything about strength elements.

Posting a video would be helpful.

Are your ribs pulled down and lower back glued to the floor?

Well, I wish it felt like a light iM element to me...

With average stiff shoulders I need to concentrate a lot over various areas (romboïds, traps, abs etc) to hold the aligement, and I'm still far from it (actually I'm not here at PE4 yet for that reason).

So to me it have to be done without any weight, or it's just a stretch (I also use it that way, but its' not PE4 anymore).

I may be wrong, thought.

Hope this helps

Mats has it. Get a good line. Ribs down and most importantly to focus on first is your lower back. It should be pressed to the floor. No gap at all.

Hy to everyone this is my first post here.

I have the same doubts of the author of the post for this exercise and I was thinking to open a topic about that myself.

I don't understand the reason to use a weight if the hands of the athlete touch the ground and only keep that position is the purpose of the exercise.

In case the weight is necessary I'd also like to have some indications about its value range in addition to the explanation for which it is required.

The only reason I can think of on why the exercise is shown so is that the weight should be used only by those who are so rigid that they can not hold the position without, so would make sense that the athlete in the video don't use it and strive only a wooden stick.

And if this is correct, I think the choice of its value is at the discretion of the user.

thanks to anyone who will answer and clarify this.

I could be wrong but my idea of the point of it is to teach people to open their shoulders while I. Correct body position(imitate the handstand position laying on the ground). Maybe for some this isn't an issue but there is a lot of people out there who are unable to so this without their chest or lower back coming up off the ground. If it is easy for you and you haven't mastered congratulations you save yourself some training time and are now closer to the handstand. For those whose shoulders are too tight well this should help out.

You're in a different position here which changes things. Also it is not true pelvic tilt. The main focus is on being able to assume the position and then move the bar overhead to floor opening your shoulders without loosing position. Really check that your ribs are not pulling up.

The "tilt" required here has no loading involed at all. Do not think of it as training tilt.

ewethestuff said:

hummm, but the tilt is the only issue for me. I'm just not able to lie flat - my lower back pops up.

 

For instance, I can do this with *slightly* bent knees. That allows me to press the lower back into the ground, pull down the ribs, etc. And the shoulder flexion is no problem. But if I extend the legs fully, there's no way my lower back stays flat.

 

 

Thoughts?

My understanding is that HS/PE4 comes so early in the progressions because if you can't assume that position lying on the floor, you certainly won't be able to get into the position while inverted. On the floor you at least have the feedback of your lower back pressing into the ground to let you know if you are in the proper alignment. I think developing the body awareness to achieve that shape while inverted will take a fair amount of practice.

Am I correct in my thinking that tight hip flexors would be one of the main barriers to this position? Perhaps some focused hip flexor work would accelerate your progress.

ewethestuff said:

hummm, but the tilt is the only issue for me. I'm just not able to lie flat - my lower back pops up.

 

For instance, I can do this with *slightly* bent knees. That allows me to press the lower back into the ground, pull down the ribs, etc. And the shoulder flexion is no problem. But if I extend the legs fully, there's no way my lower back stays flat.

 

 

Thoughts?

tight hip flexors is the culprit, my dude. same thing happened to me right around you had posted your issue with sPl/PE>im(Swivel Hips) 

how high do your thighs get off the ground when you did your thomas test? this might be an indication of how much stretching you'll have to do to make your legs be straight and your tilt to be adequate, once I started incorporating the Hip Flexor stretches after my H1/F1 WOD was over my line has gotten better workout to workout. i still have a long way to go though, my thomas test results are far from reasonable (still need to get an additional 2 inches of flexibility on each leg) 

also, how high do your feet get from the ground when you assume the hollow position with straight legs? are they 3-6inches off the ground? this was my case, 2-3 months ago. 

ewethestuff said:

Yep - hip flexors and pelvic tilt are my primary mobility focus already.

 

 

 

Maybe my tilt is just so bad I need to do work just to catch up to the point to where HS1 starts tilt work.

ditto on this one.  you should see how high my thighs get off the ground when i did my thomas test. i couldn't believe it :/ 

knowing is better than living in the fantasy, as they say. 

How are you stretching your hip flexor a now? I'm doing something similar to kit laughlin's solo and kneeling stretch. I'm seeing progress in my control of pelvic tilt. I would love some more techniques

In the case of your shoulders being ok but the lower back not getting down then yes you will be starting your hip control here. Get control of it in this position before moving on, it only gets harder as the position changes and load is added to it.

You will always notice a problem in your individual weak link.

For the first link, the lunge stretches, the front foot needs to be forward the knee : you'll have a better tension in the hamstrings witch will prevent posterior tilt and truly aim hip flexors (just a note about the girl in the vid, too flexible to need that clue)...

The point of HS/PE4 is to force you to increase your shoulder flexion WHILE keeping the ribs pulled down and the back flat on the floor.  

- For most of you this should initially be a fairly rigourous exercise.

- If you do not find it to be so; you either have exceptionally natural mobile shoulders, have already prepared your shoulders or are performing HS/PE4 wrong.  My money would be on performing it wrong.

The most common error is allow the lower and upper back to arch up off the floor.  This of course would be illustrative of thoracic mobility; NOT shoulder girdle mobility.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Daniel Shields said:

... My understanding is that HS/PE4 comes so early in the progressions because if you can't assume that position lying on the floor, you certainly won't be able to get into the position while inverted ...

Perfect answer.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

During this HS/PE 4 you keep your shoulder neutral or rotate internally?

What does it mean with ribs pulled down/up and pulled in/out? 

I would say this is ribs pulled up and ribs pulled down.