SL/PE1 Arch Body Hold (ABH)

I'm still working on my ROM. I've added quad stretches with Kit's principles and it's a great addition to hip flexor stretching session

Sometimes I see a long way with this exercise; long, long way.

 

I'm at 3x24 with my current flexibility (watching the video, far away to proper ROM), and I can't even imagine how would be 5x60 with perfect form each second each set.

 

I'll do 3 week and deload, and I'll back again to week 1. I don't want "seconds" in my back with incorrect form.

 

A true challenge here.

Bobby Bogdanovski said:

Were made by the devil

That is all.

If you thought that was tough you need to become tougher brother. The ABR will bring you too your knees.

dritar said:

This hold is so disheartening when you can see yourself because you can literally see you lose position centimeter by centimeter oh so slowly . 

 

I think F1 is also good mental preparation against adversity (or developing stubborness, depending on how you choose to see it).

 

One way to work on the slowly dropping issue is to put a block or something under your hands so if you drop you will instantly know and be forced to lift back up.

Super Saiyan said:

If you thought that was tough you need to become tougher brother. The ABR will bring you too your knees.

I don't think so really. I've found that once I was able to get to full ROM on the holds, the rock was almost effortless. Once you have a strong arch, moving back and forth is a pretty minor additional effort. If your arch is weak, the rock becomes much more difficult.

Hey guys I think I worked out what the problem is. Coach forgot to put in a few prep elements before the ABH similar to the hollow hold, so I added my own.

First one is Bent Straddle Arch Body Hold where I literally hyperextend my knees so my ankles touch my hips. Kinda hurts but at least I can hold it for 3 sets of 12

Sorry, guys; although I doubt that the following will make you feel any better.  I didn't forget, the ABH is just so easy for us that it never crossed my mind to add easier variations.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I think it is the ROM aspect killing most of us. Once you think you have got it and built up a reasonable hold time some new ROM opens up and it is back to square one. 

 

I have started working "lifts" as a supplement. Laying down either lifting my torso, or lifting my legs (significantly more difficult than the torso for me personally) into position. Doing this as a movement is cleaner and helping me recover my ROM quicker than just doing the holds.

 

- Chris

Has anyone thought of progressing to the ABR with whatever ROM limitations they have in ABH, and then re-assesing if ROM has improved over the course of those 12 ABR weeks? I'd think that ABH and ABR complement each other nicely in that regard.

 

Just a thought.

Bobby Bogdanovski said:

Hey guys I think I worked out what the problem is. Coach forgot to put in a few prep elements before the ABH similar to the hollow hold, so I added my own.

First one is Bent Straddle Arch Body Hold where I literally hyperextend my knees so my ankles touch my hips. Kinda hurts but at least I can hold it for 3 sets of 12

 

Can you show us a picture of this hold, I have a hard time imagining what it looks like 

I feel like an old man doing this exercise. Something like...

 

 

Specially on my back.

 

Hate/Love relationship

Coach Sommer said:

Sorry, guys; although I doubt that the following will make you feel any better.  I didn't forget, the ABH is just so easy for us that it never crossed my mind to add easier variations.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

 

I suppose this means it would be a good idea for some of us to work on an easier variation first. If so, that 18 month timeline is just getting longer and longer.

trw said:

I suppose this means it would be a good idea for some of us to work on an easier variation first. If so, that 18 month timeline is just getting longer and longer.

 

I expect many of the subsequent progressions will fly by. Like I said, it seems ROM is the big failing for most of us due to our horrid mobility. Once we have better ROM I don't see the next steps taking near as long - and, when they do, it is because we are in desperate need of addressing that area.

 

- Chris

chobbs said:

I expect many of the subsequent progressions will fly by. Like I said, it seems ROM is the big failing for most of us due to our horrid mobility. Once we have better ROM I don't see the next steps taking near as long - and, when they do, it is because we are in desperate need of addressing that area.

 

- Chris

After reading Bobby's genius post (though I'm assuming he was being facetious when talking about hyperextending his knees so that his ankles reach his hips), and Coach's admission about not having inserted easier variations of the ABH due to his overestimating our girly-strength, I played around with some variations and noted that my mobility improves dramatically when I reach my arms back toward my hips rather than pointing them forward past my head. In fact, it feels like I am activating new muscles that allow me to arch my back fully when I do it this way. This feeling/ability remains up to the point where my arms are out at 90 degrees from my body, but as soon as I point them forward, I lose the ability to extend my back up into an arch and develop my typical humped back.

 

The thing is, I'm not sure if the problem is anatomical due to my poor shoulder flexion and scapular mobility (I suck at HS/PE1>iM, and wall slides are impossible for me), or simply due to a major lack of strength in the erector muscles responsible for extending my upper back.

 

If it's a mobility problem, then I'm not really sure what to do other than wait it out while I work HS/PE1>iM for the next year or two with the possible addition of wall slides. In case it really is just an issue with strength however, I was thinking that it may be worthwhile to start this element over with easier variations while waiting for my mobility to improve.

 

I therefore wanted to discuss what these variations should look like with the rest of you, also hoping that Coach may chime in about whether this approach makes sense.

 

Based on how the FL PEs are broken down, here's what I was thinking:

 

SL/PE0.1: Arms: stretched back, pointing toward my feet. Legs: Straddled and flexed at the knees

SL/PE0.2: Same as above but with a rocking motion

SL/PE0.3: Arms: Stretched out to the sides (crucifix position). Legs: Together and flexed at the knees

SL/PE0.4: Same as SL/PE0.3 but with a rocking motion

SL/PE0.5: Arms: Stretched out diagonally forward (between crucifix and SL/PE1). Legs: Straddled and straight

SL/PE0.6: Same as SL/PE0.5 but with a rocking motion

 

The numbers are arbitrary as there are almost an infinite amount of angles at which you can place your arms (from close to 0 degrees all the way to 180 degrees), and steps can be skipped or added based on one's ability, but I thought this may be a good starting point for me.

 

What do you guys think?

-MR said:

(...) What do you guys think?

 

I think your variations are adding 6x12 weeks = 1.5 years to just reach ABH...

I think I'll just suck it up and get a satisfactory 5x60s ABH within 6 weeks

Then the ABR for 3 to 4 months will fix whatever ROM issue I still have.

Cole Dano said:

One way to work on the slowly dropping issue is to put a block or something under your hands so if you drop you will instantly know and be forced to lift back up.

Or something sharp. I got to think that would be something that would finally get me through to SL/PE2 .

FredInChina said:

I think your variations are adding 6x12 weeks = 1.5 years to just reach ABH...

I think I'll just suck it up and get a satisfactory 5x60s ABH within 6 weeks

Then the ABR for 3 to 4 months will fix whatever ROM issue I still have.

Fred, like I said, steps could be skipped depending on individual strength and mobility (I can probably start at SL/PE0.3 myself), but do yourself a favor and compare your mobility and muscle activation with the easiest variations that I posted before rejecting this approach.

 

I was able to do the ABH for 4 x 60s last week, and was thinking that I would be achieving mastery next week. Seeing the dramatic improvement in my arch with the easier variation however (it goes from dismal to being similar to Dillon's) makes me realize that I may have just wasted 11 weeks working on a variation that may be too difficult for me. Rather than waste another 12 weeks, I rather nip this problem in the bud now before moving forward.

 

Though getting a side lever in a few years may be cool, I really am in no rush and would prefer to have excellent mobility and balanced strength into old age. I'm therefore happy to take as much time as I need to get there without cutting corners.

FredInChina said:

I think your variations are adding 6x12 weeks = 1.5 years to just reach ABH...

I think I'll just suck it up and get a satisfactory 5x60s ABH within 6 weeks

Then the ABR for 3 to 4 months will fix whatever ROM issue I still have.

 

Why do you think ROM will improve with the ABR? It is still a static position, how is that going to make movement better?

 

I can say for certain, that practicing ABH w/o any special mobility drills didn't improve my ROM in the past. Since starting F1 my mobility in this range has improved, but it also doesn't have any drills for this area at the PE levels I am currently working on.

 

Since adding actual movement instead of purely static holds my ROM has been increasing more noticeably.

 

-MR said:

Fred, like I said, steps could be skipped depending on individual strength and mobility (I can probably start at SL/PE0.3 myself), but do yourself a favor and compare your mobility and muscle activation with the easiest variations that I posted before rejecting this approach.

 

I was able to do the ABH for 4 x 60s last week, and was thinking that I would be achieving mastery next week. Seeing the dramatic improvement in my arch with the easier variation however (it goes from dismal to being similar to Dillon's) makes me realize that I may have just wasted 11 weeks working on a variation that may be too difficult for me. Rather than waste another 12 weeks, I rather nip this problem in the bud now before moving forward.

 

Though getting a side lever in a few years may be cool, I really am in no rush and would prefer to have excellent mobility and balanced strength into old age. I'm therefore happy to take as much time as I need to get there without cutting corners.

 

Did you take videos/pics to compare the ROM? Working the easier progressions definitely might help, if you have the ROM but the strength is the missing component. For me, even the easier variations hit similar limited ROM so my focus has been on rectifying that first and movement trumps holds for me as regards improving ROM.

 

- Chris

chobbs said:

 

Did you take videos/pics to compare the ROM? Working the easier progressions definitely might help, if you have the ROM but the strength is the missing component. For me, even the easier variations hit similar limited ROM so my focus has been on rectifying that first and movement trumps holds for me as regards improving ROM.

 

- Chris

I have mirrored sliding closet doors, so I don't need to record anything. I can see the change in my arch happen in real time as I move my arms back and forth. 

-MR said:

I have mirrored sliding closet doors, so I don't need to record anything. I can see the change in my arch happen in real time as I move my arms back and forth. 

so your mobility target right now is improving the arch in your upper back? that's interesting. because my tight hip flexors and quads is what's holding me back on my progress. i've introduced a few drills from HS/PE>iM and some of the FL/PE>iM to improve my ROM in the anterior chain. (since i sit a lot at the desk, I work at. I'm looking to see where i can set up a standing desk in my office.) 

 

thank's for your input! this thread is going to be timeless. 

KeilaniG said:

so your mobility target right now is improving the arch in your upper back? that's interesting. because my tight hip flexors and quads is what's holding me back on my progress. i've introduced a few drills from HS/PE>iM and some of the FL/PE>iM to improve my ROM in the anterior chain. (since i sit a lot at the desk, I work at. I'm looking to see where i can set up a standing desk in my office.) 

 

thank's for your input! this thread is going to be timeless.

Same here, its mostly my tight hips and quads which are holding me back. What helped me was doing the SLS Progression (deck squats serve as a nice warmup for the lower body ) first plus some dynamic hip and quad stretching. Also i used the 30s mastery template week 1-4 first and build up to solid 3x12 seconds with feet together before starting again on 60s template week 1. If next weeks 3x24s are going well im confident i will eventually reach 5x60

Sorry guys, I did not mean to show bravado... I am just following F1 to the letter, not F0.1, F0.2, etc...

If Coach Sommer did not feel I had to start at an earlier version of ABH, then, in full confidence, I don't.

I've done the 5x60s, was unsatisfied with my ROM, started again at week 5 with better ROM, no big deal - I'll get there.

Specifically what mobility exercises could we do to improve the ROM? I'm on week 9 and my lower back is cramping mad hard.

I don't know actually if continuous microcycles of week 1-4 are the answer to the mobility thing. It is not logical stay in the easy weeks (1-4) to improve our ROM instead of keep moving week by week with seconds on our back but with improper ROM?

 

Like Mn/PE2, the same thing there.

 

I would like to know an official answer on this because it is a constant issue.

FredInChina said:

Sorry guys, I did not mean to show bravado... I am just following F1 to the letter, not F0.1, F0.2, etc...

If Coach Sommer did not feel I had to start at an earlier version of ABH, then, in full confidence, I don't.

I've done the 5x60s, was unsatisfied with my ROM, started again at week 5 with better ROM, no big deal - I'll get there.

The thing is that Coach Sommer  implied that he never thought of adding easier variations of the SL/PEs because his athletes make it look so easy, he couldn't imagine it being difficult for anyone else. Looking at FL/PE1 though, that's a much easier exercise than SL/PE1 (as is FL/PE3). I therefore really do think that this exercise could have been broken down into easier variations for those of us with dismal thoracic extension.

 

I think that anyone who cant extend their spine like coach's athletes for even one second fits into this category. I certainly can't, and though I can do an ABH with shitty thoracic extension for 5 x 60 seconds after 11 weeks of SL/PE1, I still have shitty ROM, even when only trying for a couple of seconds. Though I initially thought it had something to do with my spine having remodeled after years of poor posture, I'm now starting to think that it just has to do with having extremely weak erector spinae responsible for thoracic extension.

 

I'm therefore going to try easier variations, maybe without the rocks, and see how it goes. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...