Muscle up transition

Hej hej!

I some how did a few muscle ups today for the first time in a long time but I don't like doing them so dynamic it doesn't feel like it is good for the elbows. So I am wondering what is the main muscles involve in the transition? Is it just internal rotation?

I thought I could strengthen the transition movement so I can do it controlled rather than dynamic.

I have a friend who did them for the first time a week ago without training them and he did them controlled no kip.

I find it helpful to keep the elbows tucked in as much as possible, but I would definitely try the movement with less weight or assisted and see how that goes. Also check your private messages.

ausswe said:

Hej hej!

I some how did a few muscle ups today for the first time in a long time but I don't like doing them so dynamic it doesn't feel like it is good for the elbows. So I am wondering what is the main muscles involve in the transition? Is it just internal rotation?

I thought I could strengthen the transition movement so I can do it controlled rather than dynamic.

I have a friend who did them for the first time a week ago without training them and he did them controlled no kip.

Watch this, and practice accordingly. Aside from this, starting at the top of the transition and doing a 10-15 second negative (JUST through the transition, it should take that long to get to the top of the pull up) will help a lot. I would only do this for a single repetition, rest for 2-3 minutes, and repeat once more. 2 reps each training session, as the very last thing you do.

If you didn't know this, the foundation series is also going to take you all the way through the muscle up progressions, so it is a good idea to get involved there. That way you won't have to struggle with balancing your training: It will already be balanced for you. Now, on to the video.

Ah it is good to know the foundation will take me through muscle ups as well! I think I might follow your suggestions in the video anyway though. It can't hurt to do some elbow prep now.

Thanks a lot for the replies do you have any suggestions on the amount of sets I should do? I guess start of low with 2 or 3and work up to more?

For me, I wasn't able to do the negative until I could understand the concentric. I found foot supported muscle ups helped me learn the transition.

Once I was doing slow muscle up transitions consistently, I made the mistake of pushing too much volume - I've had discomfort in my elbows, and still have to watch my transition volume. Don't push it too much or you'll hurt yourself.  I used slow negatives with a low volume and gained a lot of strength from them. I did them as part of my prehab cooldown along with cuban rotations (working at around 5 reps) - that amounted to 1 slow negative (sometimes going back over, but always starting with the negative) for 2 sets. 

Good to know what I'm doing is being advocated here.

Once Foundation 2-4 is out, this kind of question will pretty much be put to rest.

Until then, be smart, like Hercules. And stay away from Hydras.

Wow. I tried False Grip Pullups today and they were surprisingly very hard. Not only was it uncomfortable but I felt very weak in comparison to regular Pullups. Is this normal?

jwalker497 said:

Wow. I tried False Grip Pullups today and they were surprisingly very hard. Not only was it uncomfortable but I felt very weak in comparison to regular Pullups. Is this normal?

Yes.

My false grip is also pretty weak but seeing as I can do half decent cirques and Bulgarian ring dips you would think my ability to perform a muscle up controlled wouldn't be far off... Not sure why my internal rotation strength is so weak.... If that is the limiting factor when doing them slow and controlled?

I guess the limiting factors can be your wrists(if you indeed have a weak false-grip -> solution is to improve it) and the most likely your elbows(this is limiting factor for many otherwise strong dudes). The solution would be to perform the slow ring muscle-up negatives, and russian dips.

Yea I plan on doing false grip pull ups and Russian dips twice a week while climbing. I am not a big fan of the negatives because it feels like too much strain on my elbows and I can't do them controlled anyway. I tried to see how low I could go into a Russian dip yesterday. Man was that disappointing I didn't move more than an inch back before I felt like I was going to fall. I really want to know why I am so weak in this movement yet so strong at dips of all kinds.... It's like Russian dips are a whole other level. False grip pull ups weren't so bad knocked out several of those but even so that's less than Half what I can do in a normal pull up.

I'm not doing much in the way of these exercises just a few sets of a few reps twice a week to get my body used to the movement.

Frustrating being held back by the endurance requirements of the foundation series when I know once I reach some of those pe6 moves ill master them on day one but all this training foundation is really making a difference! I feel stronger when I climb now.

So i tried these 2 exercises today. WOW.

The false grip pullups incredibly hard. Intruggled to maintain the grip soninstead i did them with my wrists hooked kver the rings. In other words i didnt use the grip, i hooked my wrists over the rings. IS THIS OK? this allowed me to get some reps. The thing i found about these u can def get higher i felt like the miscleup is possible from the extra height.

Russian dips. also crazy hard. I kind of fell back to support and had to kip into the dip. IS THIS OK? Again though this isna great wy to work the transition.

These 2 exercises have restored hope that i can acheive a muscleup

Thanks Josh!

jwalker497 said:

So i tried these 2 exercises today. WOW.

The false grip pullups incredibly hard. Intruggled to maintain the grip soninstead i did them with my wrists hooked kver the rings. In other words i didnt use the grip, i hooked my wrists over the rings. IS THIS OK? this allowed me to get some reps. The thing i found about these u can def get higher i felt like the miscleup is possible from the extra height.

Russian dips. also crazy hard. I kind of fell back to support and had to kip into the dip. IS THIS OK? Again though this isna great wy to work the transition.

These 2 exercises have restored hope that i can acheive a muscleup

Thanks Josh!

Kipping into a russian dip is ok when you are first beginning. Your goal should be to gradually decrease the kip until you can perform the movement without one. 

Is it ok to use a "Hook Grip" if thats a term. My false grip is hard to maintain, its just slides out of position to a regular grip. At least with the hook grip, I was able to work a good pullup.

Also is ok to Kip into the Dip from the bars. I am going to try to reduce it with practice but I imagine that will take some time. For now is it ok to kip and slowly work the negative down to resting on the bars?

My false grip strength is abysmal. I can't hold it at all with my entire bodyweight, and it's difficult even with some support. Lately, I've been following this tutorial series from gymnasticswod.com:

http://gymnasticswod.com/content/false-grip-progressions-pt1

Thats the grip I use and I do my pullups with that hand position My fingers arent on the rings.

hah! ive never thought about using the hook grip in gymnastics.

come on josh, taking on a hydra would be fun. at least once.

Is the hook grip ok?

What is a Hydra?

jwalker497 said:

Is the hook grip ok?

What is a Hydra?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra

Hook grip is ok, I mean that's how I first had to learn. I did that, and within a few weeks I was able to loosely wrap my fingers over the bar. At first I just had loosely curled fingers, and after a few months I had a solid false grip.

My suggestion is to work on false grip every time you work out, but don't put enormous volume into it. Hang at the top of the pull up, and when you think you're about to start getting weaker start the slowest possible negative pull up. Try to maintain your false grip as far down as you can, and when you lose it you should just slip back into a regular hand grip so that you don't crumple into the ground (or just land on your feet with no control). When you feel comfortable, you can hang at the top for a few seconds, and then start seeing how far down you can do 2-3 false grip pull ups. Over time these will turn into the full ROM. When that happens, you should start wrapping your fingers around the bar and slowly move the thumb so that you can eventually wrap it as well, the other way. Just like holding a regular pull up bar, but with the hand and the outside half of the palm heel on top of the bar/rings.

When transitioning into a real false grip, especially on rings, it can help to become familiar by doing foot-supported false grip rows. I believe some people here have simply started with these, and moved into partial ROM FG pull ups when they felt comfortable.