FBAS Too Easy?

Hi guys..

What dó u do in your F1 planning when the FBAS are to easy for you? I Can easily do the last leg and push exer?

Then you make sure you can also do all the preceding exercises and iM full sets and reps with good form. If no, stay there and fix it, if yes wait 2-3 weeks for F2-F4. Maybe polishing that muscle up or getting the HeSPU in the mean time :-)

Lennart Hansen said:

(...) F1 planning when the FBE are to easy for you (...)

Sorry, I con't help you with planning, but if you went for a couple of beers and pizza instead of training so hard, that would give us "normal folks" a chance to catch up... maybe...

Don't listen to Fred!

"I can do X" is not the same as "I have mastered X". Being able to do a dip is not the same as being able to do a 5x5 set of dips. Have you performed every exercise in the series with mastery-level sets and reps? Many of the earlier exercises are more difficult than they may look at first glance. And the ability to perform the most advanced exercise is not a guarantee that you can perform all of the easier ones. 

So while you're waiting for F2 to come out, you should:

- check that you can perform each exercise in the series with good form and tempo at the mastery-level sets/reps

- check that you can perform each integrated mobility exercise with the demonstrated ROM

There is nothing to be gained by not testing yourself on the earlier elements. If they really are easy for you, then great. High-rep, low intensity work is good joint rehab. And if you find one or two that turn out harder than you expected, you've found a weak area, which means low-hanging fruit for getting stronger. Early Foundation work might not be glamorous, or cool, or as much fun as more complicated movements, but mastering it will make you strong as hell. 

If you have mastered all of the integrated mobility and strength elements in a series, then while you're waiting for F2 to come out, you could either continue doing the final exercise at mastery-level, or you could do your own exercise in the interim. For HBP, you might move on to HeSPU or elevated PPP, for example. 

You must demonstrate mastery in all preparatory exercises in each family in each Foundation Product to consider advancing to the next level of preparatory elements in the next Foundation product! You cannot simply test mastery of the last preparatory element in a family. The same goes for the integrated mobility.

I can easily do the 5x5 PB dips in HBP/PE6, but learned a lesson today in the hi-rep pushups of HBP/PE2. That was an absolute killer. Don't underestimate the lower PE's, just because they are basic, high-rep stuff.

Ravn said:

I can easily do the 5x5 PB dips in HBP/PE6, but learned a lesson today in the hi-rep pushups of HBP/PE2. That was an absolute killer. Don't underestimate the lower PE's, just because they are basic, high-rep stuff.

This is true. The volume of later weeks combined with strict form is a killer!

Zach Armijo said:

Most people's undoing is and will be proper PPPs. Enjoy

hehehe, exactly my thoughts...

FredInChina said:

hehehe, exactly my thoughts...

I was a bit surprised at their placement, I would've put them higher than 5x5 dips.

OP- Assuming you've worked through all the steps in a given progression and are ready for more, there are four ways you could (potentially) go. Remembering that you won't likely have time to run a full cycle before F2 comes out.

1- Make it harder; add weight (erring on the side of small increments imo but thats on you) ; use the rings instead of floor for pushing exercises...

2- Do more reps; try using the 15 rep scheme for the 5x5 exercises from say wk 5, it adds up fast. This is good to quickly get them into the 21/15/9 warmup range if you're a bit low on reps too.

3- Working from btGB anticipate the next exercises. Seems pretty clear HeSPU are going to coming soon, it'd be a good time to build those up. 30 sec Lsits are also mentioned in the programming section, which I imagine will be a sticking point for many for a few weeks.

4- Stay at the max sets/reps and be very very comfortable with them when the time comes to move on.

But look at it as a temporary grace period to over-prepare for the next step coming out soon, not chasing weights or making up schemes and progressions for their own sakes. In a few weeks' time we will be given the way forward unambiguously

There's also just slotting in unrelated exercises you want to brush up on. I am preferring the 1-3 sets of 1-3 reps in ring series from the WoDs to complement the somewhat higher reps in F1.

And of course this becomes completely redundant by the end of Feb anyway

PPPs can last for a long time... the stronger I get the more I lean and the less weight I hold on my toes. It is a very hard skill to master

There is about 5 week before the next foundations so you could do one week of mastery for each level except the first just to make absolutely sure you have them solid? Really focusing on your body position and technique so that there is nothing wrong with them and they truly are so easy you could do them in your sleep.

FredInChina said:

hehehe, exactly my thoughts...

I tried one last night to see what this post was all about...I got slayed on one rep. xD

Well, with the F2 date sometime in March, looks like there probably WILL be time for a mini cycle.

So be it, creativity it is.

Zach Armijo said:

Most people's undoing is and will be proper PPPs. Enjoy

It's like *easy*, flip page, *easy*, flip page, ..... OK this is gonna take a while. 5x10 PPPUs with hands near hips is a monumental leap in difficulty from 5x15 pushups--because of the lean. Which is kinda OK because I like 'em, but I have a feeling it's not going to be as easy as following the 10rep template for a 12 week cycle. I've been working PPPUs for many months, though with a little less volume than if I were following the F1 template. Each time I work the reps up to 8+, I lean forward a little more and the difficulty scales right back up. I think I'm currently close to having my hands just forward of my hips, but I probably ought to take a video to get someone else's opinion. There's no rush though, because I can only handle 3-5 reps at my current amount of lean.

This isn't a complaint, but I would like to comment on this. It does seem like an odd placement for this exercise. As someone who is still relatively new at following the training advice here at gymnasticbodies (not quite 10 months--and have loved every minute of it), I can say with utter confidence that if I had tried to move from HBP/PE2 mastery to HBP/PE3 as an utter beginner, I wouldn't have been able to perform 1 rep with hands just in front of hips. I'm certain that my PPPUs gains could have been better than they have been, since I've been learning so much meanwhile, but my confidence in my previous statement stands.

I think if you follow the mastery template it should be acquired fairly well by the time you get to week 12.

I mean, you only do 6 reps for the first week.  It's a fairly lenient progression until week ~10-11. I'm more worried for the 60sx5 static holds with no shaking.

Oh yeah, it's not that. The template itself looks pretty reasonable. My comment is rather about the shift to the full blown PPPU when possibly coming off just regular pushups as a beginner. It'll vary based on a person's background and size, but I wouldn't be surprised if many folks need several cycles or mini-cycles before they can have their hands back that far. I can see how mastery of the previous element is a great first step, but I don't think it'll bridge that gap for everyone (ex: me). Not to mention that it can be tough on the wrists for those of us who have never worked on wrist strength and flexibility. Info on how to accommodate that is on the forums and elsewhere, but it isn't really addressed in F1, and it could be another possible barrier to moving through PPPUs in 1 cycle. Anyways, just trying to help. There's something to be said about not spoon-feeding every little detail, but since F1 is marketed as

Foundation One starts from the perspective of a Gymnastic Strength Training™ beginner. (Please note that previous weight training doesn't automatically transfer to GST.)

it probably wouldn't hurt to have a couple more "Tips" for that exercise...something along those lines. My own background includes many inconsistent rounds of weight lifting over the past decade and a half (back through high school) and zero mobility work, and learning this method of training has been like learning how to lift weights all over again. That's not a bad thing, but I figure people who have immersed themselves with this training style for longer periods of time may not catch little quirks like this as easily.

I'm not really worried about how quickly I'm going to progress through the elements. I'm worried about getting stronger and doing things right so as to avoid injury (and poor habits) during the process, and that was the only major gap I've seen (or think I've seen).

maleko said:

Oh yeah, it's not that. The template itself looks pretty reasonable. My comment is rather about the shift to the full blown PPPU when possibly coming off just regular pushups as a beginner. It'll vary based on a person's background and size, but I wouldn't be surprised if many folks need several cycles or mini-cycles before they can have their hands back that far. I can see how mastery of the previous element is a great first step, but I don't think it'll bridge that gap for everyone (ex: me). Not to mention that it can be tough on the wrists for those of us who have never worked on wrist strength and flexibility. Info on how to accommodate that is on the forums and elsewhere, but it isn't really addressed in F1, and it could be another possible barrier to moving through PPPUs in 1 cycle. Anyways, just trying to help. There's something to be said about not spoon-feeding every little detail, but since F1 is marketed as

it probably wouldn't hurt to have a couple more "Tips" for that exercise...something along those lines. My own background includes many inconsistent rounds of weight lifting over the past decade and a half (back through high school) and zero mobility work, and learning this method of training has been like learning how to lift weights all over again. That's not a bad thing, but I figure people who have immersed themselves with this training style for longer periods of time may not catch little quirks like this as easily.

 

I'm not really worried about how quickly I'm going to progress through the elements. I'm worried about getting stronger and doing things right so as to avoid injury (and poor habits) during the process, and that was the only major gap I've seen (or think I've seen).

It's a pretty gentle curve. You start at 3x2 repetitions. If you can do 75 pushups that should be doable. And hypothetically by the time a beginner starts PE3, they will also have mastered scapular shrugs and elbow planks, which help a lot. 24 weeks' worth of pushups seems like it would be plenty of wrist conditioning, too. To really know for sure though, we'll have to wait and see how people are doing in 6 months when the first round of Foundation beginners start getting into PPP's.

Here's a small anecdote on PPP;

I work in front of the computer, from home, a lot (hence why I'm posting so much lately, I keep an app window open while I'm coding), and since living in Japan I have picked up the habit of sitting on the floor to do so.

I get very restless when I'm stuck inside working or studying, and sets of 10 PPP gave me more of a whole-body challenge than normal pushups (which I find boring), so they became my go-to for restlessness. During my last run of exams, I was doing a few hundred per day, in sets of 10, almost-classic G2G.

That gave me a strong planche lean and made PPP distinctly easy. As I recall, I started doing sets of 10 when I was bored because horizontal pushing (planche PU etc) are probably my weakest area and I wanted to suck it up and address that weakness while I had downtime.

There isn't really a point to this, I'm just bored today, snowed in, and wanted to make a consistency reference.

Hari_Seldon said:

24 weeks' worth of pushups seems like it would be plenty of wrist conditioning, too.

I don't think that regular push-ups prepare the wrists for the wrist position in the PPP at all really...  I've done regular push-ups all my life but find PPPs fairly taxing on my wrists, even with my fingers out to the sides.

However I do think that when I get to PPPs the low volume and slow pace of adding reps will give my wrists a chance to adapt.  Here's hoping!