Question On High Reps

First of all
as a first time poster but long time viewer, I want to thank this community for
it's great contents. It has been invaluable for me. When I started bodyweight
training a year ago I weight 110 kg ( at 1.85m) and I am down now to 82 kg. I
had some major lower back problems but they are nearly solved and I am even
capable of performing a back bridge (although not with the good form as shown
here). So thanks a lot for the great info it has made all the difference!

As a beginner I was really looking forward to F1 and I

really love the content. However I got a question and I was hoping that someone
would help me:

Like many others I started with CC (changed to BtgB as

soon as I found out about it three months later) and I was able to pass the
progression of 3x40 of the incline push up. When i switched to BtgB I changed
my work outs to the 5x3 regimen and was able to perform dips for that amount.
Now that I have started with F1 I cannot even perform 4x15 on the incline push
up where a year ago the 3x40 was easy. So my question is will I lose that ability
again if I follow F1 and made it to the dip progression? and if so what is the
point then of these high rep exercises when you already have the strength for
higher levels?

Also i have a question on deck squats. I am able to

perform sls and every other strength and mobility exercise in F1, but I can't
get a single leg squat except with a serious bounce back when squatting up or
when I cross my legs (sort of happened automatically). What is a good way to
ease into the deck squat?

5x15r Incline Push Up is really not that much.  If you are at the point you are doing 5x5 in the dip progressions then the 5x15r incline just shouldn't be a problem.

Also note the rep ranges coach prescribes for warm ups. So you will be able to maintain the higher rep sets.

With out seeing how you are training I don't want to speculate too much, but you have either found a way to make incline pushups very hard, or your further strength training has not been what you think it is.

On the SLS, wait for Foundation 2

I know that the incline push up isn't that hard. The rep range seems to be the problem for me. I can get the same amount of reps for normal push ups as for the incline push ups there is hardly any difference in the rep number (maybe 1 or two reps in the final set). The same goes for incline rows. I am able to do 3x5 dead hang pull ups but my arms just stop at 3x12 incline rows. So the strenght is not so much the problem as the aerobic element of it. And I just didn't feel like spending weeks on training back up to that level again if I were going to loose that again.

The problem with the SLS is that i can't do a single deck squat while i can do the rest. So i was wondering if there was a PE for the deck squat.

Thanks for the reply I will re-read the warming-up chapter 

Cole Dano said:

5x15r Incline Push Up is really not that much.  If you are at the point you are doing 5x5 in the dip progressions then the 5x15r incline just shouldn't be a problem.

I'm in a similar position having just tested incline push ups today and they kicked me pretty hard

I think I'm just, surprise surprise, not as strong as I thought!

Having a few issues with deck squats myself. For me it is a combination of poor techique (I think) and low strength in compressing knees to chest.

For now I do my rolling back onto three exercise mats (about 10mm each) so my feet hit the floor slightly below my backside. This is enough for me to perform the deck squats. Over the next few weeks I expect my feel for the exercise to improve, as well as my ability to compress knees to chest through my work in the tuck-ups for MN/PE1.

Next week I will remove one of the mats (down to 20mm difference) and so on. This feels better to me than the other option I am aware of which would be holding a light weight in your hands to help with momentum. I don't think that would help so much with proper technique or with the need to compress more. Depends what you want to get out of it.

Cheers,

George.

On the 5x15 sets, take the time to rebuild. You don't have to go back to week 1, just find the best starting point based on your performance. Maintain it by using it in your warm up sets, especially in the early weeks of the next progressions.

Sorry I totally misunderstood the Deck Squat. Mobility is a big one there for many. George's lots of pads is a good idea.

As a supplementary exercise, squatting in general is good. I¨ve had good luck with having people squat while holding onto something solid, squat down as far as you can and using the hold pull your self into a deeper squat. In doing this make sure your knees don't collapse in on you. When it improves as a static do it for slow reps always working to deepen the squat.

Thanks George & Cole Dano for the pointers on Deck Squats, very helpful.

Regarding high reps, I think it comes down to the body's ability to handle waste products (e.g. lactate) effectively. I have experienced the exact same thing as the OP - for example, dead hang pull-ups with an additional 35lbs on my waist for multiple sets of 3-5, yet one set of 10 bodyweight pullups does me in. Having trained solely with lower reps for such a long time my high rep capacity is close to nil at this point. One set and I am usually shot, and it seems to generally be a lactate problem in my case as the "pump" is usually insane and very slow to go away.

Interestingly, low load and higher rep movements are what currently test best for me. My theory, and more so hope, is that once the capacity to hanlde the higher rep motions is built back up to that it will be easily maintained by keeping some high rep work in the program. I think many of us lost this capacity with the prevalance of the RKC Power To The People methodology. As a wrestler in HS the bodyweight movements were a common (and easy) thing, and although I am much stronger now then at that point in my life I have lost this capacity along with mobility through years spent focused purely on 3-5rep strength training.

- Chris

Strength endurance is the easiest form of strength to develop; if you are proceeding from a solid strength base.  Someone who is capable of performing 3-5 dips for multiple sets will adjust to the higher reps in only a matter of weeks.  

Of course this does assume that the dips are of good quality.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

p.s.  It should also be noted that the higher rep work, as included in the F1 warmup protocol, is quite therapeutic for the joints and connective tissues.  In fact the "stronger" you are in lower reps, the more imperative it is that you are exposed to the higher rep work on a regular basis.

Thanks Cole Dano and Coach, I will build my endurance up to the required level and try to maintaining it this time with proper warming ups

Thanks George for the advice on the deck squat, i will try that in tommorows work out. Due to the fact that I am working out at home it will be on an old matras (apr 5 cm) but i hope this will work without to much momentum

Edit: Glad to see that I am not the only one with this problem, After the first reply I thought my body was a bit messed up

Dieuwert van der Wouw said:

... Glad to see that I am not the only one with this problem, After the first reply I thought my body was a bit messed up ...

It is.  But we're going to work on fixing that.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Dieuwert van der Wouw said:

Thanks George for the advice on the deck squat, i will try that in tommorows work out. Due to the fact that I am working out at home it will be on an old matras (apr 5 cm) but i hope this will work without to much momentum

If you have them, you could also use some flattened cardboard boxes or similar, which would allow you to gradually lower the height over time?

After adding the small amount of height I was able to do the roll portion of the deck squat without much momentum at all. This was useful, as I could feel the parts of the motion where I wasn't rolling smoothly. I found I was 'unrolling' myself and kind of reaching for the floor with my feet, which flattened my back and slowed me down at exactly the wrong time. This also pulled my chest away from my knees.

Now I am aware of this, and have the ability to slowly reduce the assistance, I am confident I will have this fixed before week 11.

Cheers,

George.

Another tip for the deck squats is to hold a small weight (3-5 kg) in front of you. This will make getting back up a lot easier. By decreasing the weight you can ease into doing deck squats unweighted.

Just read Georges post. Did i now understand it wrong? Can you not use momentum at your roll. I did use abit momentum. I can put both my legs bohind my head at the same time so i have good flexibility. And i think i can do it slower. But now i started to think that did i do the mastery level all wrong?

Same story here, high reps are a bit of a killer for me. And it is not necessarily just that I feel gradually more tired, mostly at some point in the middle of the set I just get switched off, maybe neuro/head related thing.

Just hoping as coach says it will come rather quickly (and my low rep strength level is enough for this to happen).

One thing that doesn't seem to be progressing much for me is hollow holds/core, it took me long time to get up to 25/30s max L-sit on parralets (on a good day only), or 60s hollow hold (maybe not that long as Lsit), but then next reps will be quite weaker (that's being able to hold full BL and one-legged FL for 10sec for couple of reps).

As soon as I looked at FL/PE5, FL/PE6 requirements I knew it will take me a long time to get there (currently on FL/PE1 and long way to mastery level)...

I like F1 more and more .

RiQC said:

Just read Georges post. Did i now understand it wrong? Can you not use momentum at your roll. I did use abit momentum. I can put both my legs bohind my head at the same time so i have good flexibility. And i think i can do it slower. But now i started to think that did i do the mastery level all wrong?

I don't think you understood it wrong - some momentum is of course necessary to get to your feet. If you managed to do all 5x15r for the mastery test, I should think that you must be doing it correctly and possess the necessary strength/mobility. That's a lot of work to cheat through.

The perspective of my post was from/for someone who is struggling to get the movement, not so much for testing mastery for more accomplished athletes. I believe the point of the deck squat is to get people used to squatting out of the deepest possible start position, so the momentum used in the rolling part is not that important.

My personal preference is to try and do all parts with what I see as the 'proper' technique' in the interests of being a better gymnast. This will carry over nicely to anything I do in the future that would benefit from a smooth and controlled roll - maybe handstand rolls, for example. If I am working on fixing something, may as well fix it to the best of my ability.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

Cheers,

George.

Thanks George. Now we are at the same page.

My personal preference is to try and do all parts with what I see as the 'proper' technique' in the interests of being a better gymnast. This will carry over nicely to anything I do in the future that would benefit from a smooth and controlled roll - maybe handstand rolls, for example. If I am working on fixing something, may as well fix it to the best of my ability.