Conditioning

[Navi Guerra]

So I was thinking of doing just some total body workouts every day, all body weight stuff. Right now I am doing P90X. My question is which one would help me get the muscles I need faster? My goals are just to reach a competitive level in gymnastics some day so ya can anyone help?

[James Portillo]

1.) Drop P90x...now. If all you care about is muscles and vanity then you're in the wrong place.

 

2.) Follow a killroy template... it's not that hard to do some searching; trust me, while there's plenty of knowledgeable and helpful members, no one likes a person who is waiting to be spoonfed.

 

3.) Come to terms with the fact that if you haven't started gymnastics at age 5 or 6, you most likely won't become anywhere close to being at a competitive level.

[Syed Muhammad Shahbaz]

1.) Drop P90x...now. If all you care about is muscles and vanity then you're in the wrong place.

 

2.) Follow a killroy template... it's not that hard to do some searching; trust me, while there's plenty of knowledgeable and helpful members, no one likes a person who is waiting to be spoonfed.

 

3.) Come to terms with the fact that if you haven't started gymnastics at age 5 or 6, you most likely won't become anywhere close to being at a competitive level.

Thats rude!

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Thats rude!

 

Not really. I mean, I ask a lot of questions but I also search. I think Navi should be doing more searching, especially when the information he seeks is readily available in active topics! 

 

Navi, you will very likely never compete in the olympics or at a high level in gymnastics; however, that won't stop you from achieving everything you really want in gymnastics. 

[Joshua Slocum]

What precisely is "competitive" depends on the event you're going to. The fact that you can't become an olympian doesn't mean you can't put together a respectable routine on your chosen event(s). If you're in high school and you're hoping to compete in college, for example, that might be a reasonable goal. So, Navi, it'd be useful if you could elaborate further on your goals so we can give you more specific advice. 

[James Portillo]

Not really. I mean, I ask a lot of questions but I also search. I think Navi should be doing more searching, especially when the information he seeks is readily available in active topics! 

 

Navi, you will very likely never compete in the olympics or at a high level in gymnastics; however, that won't stop you from achieving everything you really want in gymnastics. 

Exactly.

 

I may have been a bit blunt but this is precisely why I said what I said--I did not mean to deter him from his goals in any way but he also needs to be a bit realistic. It is very much possible you can build an extremely high level of gymnastic ability but also realize that would take A LOT of dedication. I mean TONS. That's not to say you can't build a respectable amount of strength and skill with GST in a relatively short time, but for most of us mere mortals we might not see competition as an option.

[Syed Muhammad Shahbaz]

Not really. I mean, I ask a lot of questions but I also search. I think Navi should be doing more searching, especially when the information he seeks is readily available in active topics! 

 

Navi, you will very likely never compete in the olympics or at a high level in gymnastics; however, that won't stop you from achieving everything you really want in gymnastics. 

I was talking about this:

 

3.) Come to terms with the fact that if you haven't started gymnastics at age 5 or 6, you most likely won't become anywhere close to being at a competitive level.

 

I believe that if a person has strong determination, he can succeed in any competition. All he needs is hard work and right direction. Besides, you guys are here to help and I would give it to you. You guys are doing a great job but please never discourage and limit anyone by saying such words that YOU CANT. I believe you humiliate yourself when you say I CANT. But that's just me.

[Biren Patel]

I was talking about this:

 

3.) Come to terms with the fact that if you haven't started gymnastics at age 5 or 6, you most likely won't become anywhere close to being at a competitive level.

 

I believe that if a person has strong determination, he can succeed in any competition. All he needs is hard work and right direction. Besides, you guys are here to help and I would give it to you. You guys are doing a great job but please never discourage and limit anyone by saying such words that YOU CANT. I believe you humiliate yourself when you say I CANT. But that's just me.

That's cute.

You are so very wrong. Hard work, determination, and right direction only go so far. You don't get to compete with the cream of the crop in sport without possessing supreme talent.

So, yes, the OP will never compete at a high level of competetive gymnastics and still be successful. In a sport where it takes 10 years+ to develop skills, there's just no chance. He could compete - maybe at some really low collegiate level. But be a champ? Nah.

I'm trying to limit my douchiness here, but you gotta wake up from your dream, buddy.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

jfslocum, point conceded. There are levels of competition below Olympic to be sure.

I was talking about this:

 

3.) Come to terms with the fact that if you haven't started gymnastics at age 5 or 6, you most likely won't become anywhere close to being at a competitive level.

 

I believe that if a person has strong determination, he can succeed in any competition. All he needs is hard work and right direction. Besides, you guys are here to help and I would give it to you. You guys are doing a great job but please never discourage and limit anyone by saying such words that YOU CANT. I believe you humiliate yourself when you say I CANT. But that's just me.

Like James said, what he --and what I-- said is not meant to deter or to discourage! We are simply trying to avoid Navi having unrealistic expectations. Hopes and dreams are fantastic, and I certainly don't want him to give up his dream of competing competitively at a high level or otherwise; however, I think we're doing him a favour if we try to convince him to not expect it. Especially when he seems to be want to be spoon-fed. He's asking for help to become a competitive gymnast on a forum that is literally BUZZING with active topics (not to mention fantastic old topics) about this very subject !! If Navi desires to become a competitive gymnast of significant skill, which goes even beyond the pure matter of strength and conditioning of the body, he must work extremely hard to educate himself on the subject.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

That's cute.

You are so very wrong. Hard work, determination, and right direction only go so far. You don't get to compete with the cream of the crop in sport without possessing supreme talent.

So, yes, the OP will never compete at a high level of competetive gymnastics and still be successful. In a sport where it takes 10 years+ to develop skills, there's just no chance. He could compete - maybe at some really low collegiate level. But be a champ? Nah.

I'm trying to limit my douchiness here, but you gotta wake up from your dream, buddy.

I agree with you in principle, but I think you're taking it a bit far. I think it's possible that Navi (who is somewhere around 16-19 years old, I guess) could develop many fairly high level skills in the next 10 years with well thought out and directed training. Surely there are leagues outside of college that post-college athletes can compete in ? That isn't tip top of the cream of course, but we don't know for sure if that is even what Navi is actually aiming for.

 

I think people like Navi have unrealistic expectations and dreams because they don't know what it would really take to make them happy. For example, when I was younger I imagined being happy as a competitive fighter as being one of the best fighters on the planet. As I trained hard for this goal over the last 8 years, I have tempered my attitude and although my passion and goal of being the best is still the same, I realize that it will most likely never happen and I probably wouldn't be much happier if it did. As it stands, I'd be really happy with just being one of the best fighters in the U.S. which is quite possible given time and training.

 

You don't need to be the best to be satisfied with your athletic skills, Navi. Do it for the fun, and you'll realize that having the satisfaction from being able to do something really well is well worth the work alone, competition aside.

[Biren Patel]

I agree with you in principle, but I think you're taking it a bit far. I think it's possible that Navi (who is somewhere around 16-19 years old, I guess) could develop many fairly high level skills in the next 10 years with well thought out and directed training. Surely there are leagues outside of college that post-college athletes can compete in ? That isn't tip top of the cream of course, but we don't know for sure if that is even what Navi is actually aiming for.

 

I think people like Navi have unrealistic expectations and dreams because they don't know what it would really take to make them happy. For example, when I was younger I imagined being happy as a competitive fighter as being one of the best fighters on the planet. As I trained hard for this goal over the last 8 years, I have tempered my attitude and although my passion and goal of being the best is still the same, I realize that it will most likely never happen and I probably wouldn't be much happier if it did. As it stands, I'd be really happy with just being one of the best fighters in the U.S. which is quite possible given time and training.

 

You don't need to be the best to be satisfied with your athletic skills, Navi. Do it for the fun, and you'll realize that having the satisfaction from being able to do something really well is well worth the work alone, competition aside.

Yes, actually I am not aware either of tiered leagues beyond the collegiate level, so my post was aimed at Navi being able to compete only in college. He looks around 16 to me, so with just two years before college he has some time to develop basic skills. Then 4 years in college - that means maybe towards the end of his college career he'd be performing some B skills. But performing technically flawless circles and malteses? The cards are not in his favour for competetitive life. Also, he needs a coach beyond this forum for the kind of stuff beyond ring strength. So, if he doesn't get a coach until college starts, that definitely reduces his chances even more. And if the level of coaching expertise at a low tier college level is anything to judge by according to the coaches at my university, then it's not looking so great.

Of course, I do think these high skills like manna and crosses could one day be available to him. I'm not denying that. Surely one day he could achieve them with hard work, dedication, etc.. But in the time span he has for competition, I don't think it's likely that he will ever reach high level of competeition. Yea, it depends on what his goals for competetive life are, but definitely not the world championships. To sum up, I think these higher skills could be achieved, just not in time for any notable competeition. I'd say, do it for the personal satisfaction and self-mastery. That will bring more reward in the long term.

Edit: also, in a separate post, Navi has stated he wants to get better in every event. That's a holy load of skills to learn in his time frame, with school work, job, etc..

[Paradox]

I agree with the main premise going on up with everyone else. Just be realistic about your goals, or as shakyamuni said, it's time to wake up from the dream. I think everyone here just want to make sure that your dreams dont get crushed down the road when you're in the deep end by then. So, we might as well just crush them now because there would be a lot more pain later if we let you hang onto some really unrealistic expectations for yourself.

For us elderly people (elderly by gymnastics terms), gymnastics brings a lot of disappointment (admist the satisfaction, of course!) so be prepared for obstacles, Navi. Again, gotta be realistic about yourself. Realistic sometimes means coming to face with disappointment.

Also, be prepared for the worst. I broke both of my wrists last year, and my gymnastics abilities will never reach the peak they could have due to so many ridiculous complications and soft tissue injuries. Just be prepared for the good and bad.

[Biren Patel]

Well, I nominate this for most depressing thread of the year.

Sorry, Navi. It's like the existentialist club convened here and left a path of destruction in their wake.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

LOL.

 

I don't find it depressing... knowing what to expect and how hard it will be to get there will make it that much more satisfying for Navi if/when he achieves his realistic goals!

[AlexX]

This highly depends on his definition of competitive level. In all around? just one event? power-tumbling? trampoline? 

While I am not as well versed in male gymnastics I can tell from personal experiences (mine and those I have known) that at his age (assuming 16) it is absolutely possible to reach a competitive level in at least one event. I began tumbling at the age of 16 and reached a competitive level. I believe coach mentioned that one of his student reached a high level on rings starting at 16 (I think Joshua would know for sure), someone I know won multiple medals on floor despite starting tumbling at 15 (and was self taught for the first year). 

Saying he won't reach the Olympics or elite is kind of random comment since few gymnasts make it that far even starting from 5-6 years old. 

Having realistic expectation is one thing but to me it seems like you guys have taken it well beyond that and into the realm of just being pessimistic. 

Oh and OP drop p90x and start with a proper routine from around here. Being competent at GST and knowing the proper body positions will go a VERY long way in reducing learning curves for most skills. 

[Daniel Burnham]

Navi, don't let these guys get you down. I agree you should educate yourself buy coach's book and get a strength training program going. Also go to local clubs and find a coach maybe even private if you can afford it. Almost noone on this forum had any real knowledge of gymnastics strngtb trainingbefore educating themselves with coach's material and the rest has trickled down through us combined with some personal experiences.

You can be competitive if you work hard. I'm not saying Olympic levels but maybe collegiate or NAIGC. There are several people in my club who came to gymnastics late including me. I am not very competitive yet but am getting there and start competition in the upcoming year. One guy started in college with little guidance and has some pretty cool skills even some c level. That's after only 4 years with many mistakes made, one being limited strength training.

To the guys saying that high level skills aren't possible after 8 years. That's just crazy. Just following coaches progressions would probably get you some c skills and there is a ton more to gymnastics than strength. In fact the skill part is much harder because you need a gym and a coach and countless hours.

I practice 6 times a week for 3 hours a day. I have several b skills. I have only been training skills for about 4 months! And have only trained the strength portion for a little over a year. Do I have circles? No. Wil I win nationals? No but I am proud of what I have accomplished and only look forward to what more I can achieve. I am currently 23 and don't plan on stopping anytime soon.

You are at a place many people have been before. If you persevere you can achieve.

[Daniel Burnham]

While I am not as well versed in male gymnastics I can tell from personal experiences (mine and those I have known) that at his age (assuming 16) it is absolutely possible to reach a competitive level in at least one event. I began tumbling at the age of 16 and reached a competitive level. I believe coach mentioned that one of his student reached a high level on rings starting at 16 (I think Joshua would know for sure), someone I know won multiple medals on floor despite starting tumbling at 15 (and was self taught for the first year).

Alexx I believe the person you are referring to is Dillion Zirke. While I have not met him, I have heard others talk highly of him. From what they have said, he was very good at rings and vault and these praises are up to junior Olympic standards. I think the learning curve of the other apparatuses makes them a bit harder for late starters.

[AlexX]

While I am not as well versed in male gymnastics I can tell from personal experiences (mine and those I have known) that at his age (assuming 16) it is absolutely possible to reach a competitive level in at least one event. I began tumbling at the age of 16 and reached a competitive level. I believe coach mentioned that one of his student reached a high level on rings starting at 16 (I think Joshua would know for sure), someone I know won multiple medals on floor despite starting tumbling at 15 (and was self taught for the first year).

Alexx I believe the person you are referring to is Dillion Zirke. While I have not met him, I have heard others talk highly of him. From what they have said, he was very good at rings and vault and these praises are up to junior Olympic standards. I think the learning curve of the other apparatuses makes them a bit harder for late starters.

I think I remember it being Dillion as well.

As far as I know (once again limited knowledge of male gymnastics here), parallel bars and pommel horse are really the only events where being a late started hurts you drastically. For sure floor, vault and bars is possible to be quite competitive as a late starter. Especially if you enter with a good deal of athletic ability to begin with. 

[Joshua Naterman]

Navi, competitive gymnastics is about a lot more than strength. If you want to be competitive, you're going to need to find a local coach and start putting in a lot of skill work in addition to the strength training we do here.

 

For the strength training, what you'll find here is the best there is. Start off with the prerequisites, they will teach you the shapes you need to know and be strong in. The prerequisites thread can be found in the Getting Started forum.

[Jon Douglas]

Navi, competitive gymnastics is about a lot more than strength. If you want to be competitive, you're going to need to find a local coach and start putting in a lot of skill work in addition to the strength training we do here.

 

For the strength training, what you'll find here is the best there is. Start off with the prerequisites, they will teach you the shapes you need to know and be strong in. The prerequisites thread can be found in the Getting Started forum.

Navi? That's your answer there.

[Navi Guerra]

To clear up any confusion here I am 14 and I am hoping to put together ok routenes for different events. I am not looking towards the Olympics or nationals because I know its to late for that. My goals are really to advance and compete in gymnastics and maybe someday compete in college. 

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

I agree, this is the most depressing thread of the year on BtGB forum!

 

Here is for you Navi Guerra:

"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do!"
~ Walter Bagehot

 

Now, get out there and do your thing, I'll be happy to follow your progress (maybe all the way to the Olympics?) on the forum

[Riku Calderón]

Go Navi Go!!!!

[James Portillo]

I admire your determination and goals and like I said, I did not mean to sound discouraging or mean. Besides, because you're here and you're only 14, you have that much more room for improvement; I joined in 2010 and I had a long break late 2011 to early 2012 so in a couple years you'll be way ahead of where I would be/am right now.

 

Take the advice of many who have posted before me and find a coach--what would help also is to find your specific goals: What event are you considering? What static holds/movements do you want to achieve the most? Do you need mobility work? Are you lacking in basic strength? Answering these questions is the first step in your journey.

 

Best of luck to you and I look forward to witnessing your progress.