Straddle Press Handstand Problems

[Deadlocked007]

So for the past 2 couple of months I've been trying to teach myself a press handstand. When ever I try it though it just boggles my mind. I can jump into it but when i try to do it normally. I lean forward and then try to make myself rise but all that happens is my legs come together on the ground and don't rise at all. I can hold a freestanding handstand with legs together and toes pointed for about 10 seconds. I can walk about 20 feet like that on my hands I can do about 2 HSPU. Am i not strong enough or am I doing something wrong? My goal is to be able to do it on a pommel horse by February since my school's gymnastics season starts then and we are trying to get all teams to qualify for state !

[Daniel Burnham]

Do slow negatives agains the wall. Make sure you bring your legs out and then up above you. It isn't just a rll on the ground. Then do them with your feet elevated on a panel mat. Reduce height of mats until you get to the ground.

[David McManamon]

Okay, keep conditioning and since you don't have a coach get yourself a video camera. First make sure you understand the technique, everyone doing this move correctly will look nearly identical:

How does your's look in comparison?

What will make this move easier? Great flexibility in the forward fold and straddle positions will make lifting easier. Then add locked arm strength exercises and you'll be there in no time. No jumping, balance needs to be training slow and controlled so think about progressions appropriate to your level that don't involve jumping.

[ADRIANO FLORES CANO]

Handstand presses = Supreme flexibility (pancake/pike stretch) + a certain amount of strenght on the shoulder is required, but not it's all about strenght + great wrist conditioning/flexibility because of the angle of arm in the press put too much pression on the wrist.

And I bet that the flexibility it's the main factor in the sucess of this skill

Keep with negatives on the wall and active/passive stretch of the hip flexors.

[Deadlocked007]

Do slow negatives agains the wall. Make sure you bring your legs out and then up above you. It isn't just a rll on the ground. Then do them with your feet elevated on a panel mat. Reduce height of mats until you get to the ground.

I shall try that :3 Thanks!

Okay, keep conditioning and since you don't have a coach get yourself a video camera. First make sure you understand the technique, everyone doing this move correctly will look nearly identical:

How does your's look in comparison?

What will make this move easier? Great flexibility in the forward fold and straddle positions will make lifting easier. Then add locked arm strength exercises and you'll be there in no time. No jumping, balance needs to be training slow and controlled so think about progressions appropriate to your level that don't involve jumping.

So planche training would be helpful?

Handstand presses = Supreme flexibility (pancake/pike stretch) + a certain amount of strenght on the shoulder is required, but not it's all about strenght + great wrist conditioning/flexibility because of the angle of arm in the press put too much pression on the wrist.

And I bet that the flexibility it's the main factor in the sucess of this skill

Keep with negatives on the wall and active/passive stretch of the hip flexors.

Well I can pike stretch with my face to my knees and do a solid pancake if I have my litle sister jump on my back while stretching haha but my straddle is rather small it's I'd say about 120 degress wide I guess. The negatives I seem to have bad control of I just end up with my feet just falling when I get about 1 foot away from the ground.

Edit: I also have paralettes and a full pommel horse if I could use them for training?

[Craig Rackemann]

As Daniel mentioned above concentrate on working your negatives to a height where the entire descent is slow and controlled.

If your feet fall then you're probably working outside the ROM of your current strength level.

The same concept can be used for your press handstands too. Work on your Box Press HS with the box set at a height that you can press into handstand from without momentum or kicking. As you get stronger then lower the height of the box.

Coach had written a tutorial on press handstands though I'm not sure where to find the tutorials now on the new site. Also, if you can find the video of Yuri's rant on press handstands that is well worth watching too.

[Craig Mallett]

Coach has also written that you should have a solid 30s freestanding handstand before even bothering to work on Press to Handstand. Might be time to revisit handstand.

[Craig Rackemann]

I wasn't aware of that recommendation so thanks for pointing it out.

I know for the handstand WODs coach recommends to do box press to headstand if not yet strong enough to press to handstand.

So perhaps a good combination would be extra handstand work, slow wall negatives and box press headstands?

[Deadlocked007]

Coach has also written that you should have a solid 30s freestanding handstand before even bothering to work on Press to Handstand. Might be time to revisit handstand.

o.O I did not know that! Thank you!! I'll get right to it :3

I wasn't aware of that recommendation so thanks for pointing it out.

I know for the handstand WODs coach recommends to do box press to headstand if not yet strong enough to press to handstand.

So perhaps a good combination would be extra handstand work, slow wall negatives and box press headstands?

I don't really have anything I could improvise for a the box presses though but I'll keep on with the negatives.

Anyone know when Coach's handstand book will come out? Also should I do some shoulder weight lifting? I started a bit of light lifting to try to get higher jumps and just more strength in general

[Craig Rackemann]

I'm sure you could come up with something, I use old school milk crates stacked on top of each other. Get creative.

A bit off topic from the original handstand press questions..

Weights are just another tool in the toolbox. I found that I got much stronger when I dropped all my weight training and focused all of my energy on Coach's progressions, first pushups, then dips and finally HSPUs.

There's just something about being upside down and not wanting to land on your head doing HeSPUs that a military press can't replicate. There's nowhere to hide as it forces you to concentrate more and so triggers more muscle recruitment.

Coach's system is pretty fool proof if you put in the time and effort and don't try to change things up or add extra stuff.

For lower body a lot of people here do like the olympic lifts, squats and deadlifts. I can't argue with that. My vertical leap was highest when front squats were my main focus but my balance, agility and all-round athletism improved tremendously when I started to focus on single leg exercises.

If I were you I'd stop thinking about doing extra to "get more strength in general" and take a sneak peak at Coach's athletes.

[Joshua Naterman]

Coach has also written that you should have a solid 30s freestanding handstand before even bothering to work on Press to Handstand. Might be time to revisit handstand.

As I have been finding out recently, it is very important to have the right handstand shape in your freestanding handstand. Don't slack off and allow yourself a slight planche in your handstand, make sure your body is aligned in that straight back position with shoulders directly over your hands.

Yes, this takes a bit of time for many of us to develop from scratch as adults, but if you dedicate yourself to the most basic movements like hollow holds, basic pull ups/push ups and the handstand you will find that you develop a strong foundation that will cause you to have steady forward progress and a lack of injuries.

Please, take the time to make sure your handstand is very good. Stomach to wall is the way to go here, because it allows you to find the position described and in the process builds a very strong and stable shoulder girdle.

Back to wall will always force you to arch until your shoulders are completely open, and you will have a much harder time developing the upper back muscles that help you to open the shoulders completely in this position. As Yuri has demonstrated, once you get to where your shoulders are open, back to wall can be useful for some press handstand drills but it isn't a very good idea when you are first starting out.

[Blairbob]

How's your straddle-L?

[Deadlocked007]

I'm sure you could come up with something, I use old school milk crates stacked on top of each other. Get creative.

A bit off topic from the original handstand press questions..

Weights are just another tool in the toolbox. I found that I got much stronger when I dropped all my weight training and focused all of my energy on Coach's progressions, first pushups, then dips and finally HSPUs.

There's just something about being upside down and not wanting to land on your head doing HeSPUs that a military press can't replicate. There's nowhere to hide as it forces you to concentrate more and so triggers more muscle recruitment.

Coach's system is pretty fool proof if you put in the time and effort and don't try to change things up or add extra stuff.

For lower body a lot of people here do like the olympic lifts, squats and deadlifts. I can't argue with that. My vertical leap was highest when front squats were my main focus but my balance, agility and all-round athletism improved tremendously when I started to focus on single leg exercises.

If I were you I'd stop thinking about doing extra to "get more strength in general" and take a sneak peak at Coach's athletes.

Not everyone has milkcrates laying around but so I guess I should focus on lower body with weights and coach Sommer's method's for everything else. Also guess what everyone??? I got permission the move the mushroom into the weight room everyone was all like :OOO when I was doing circles lol.

As I have been finding out recently, it is very important to have the right handstand shape in your freestanding handstand. Don't slack off and allow yourself a slight planche in your handstand, make sure your body is aligned in that straight back position with shoulders directly over your hands.

Yes, this takes a bit of time for many of us to develop from scratch as adults, but if you dedicate yourself to the most basic movements like hollow holds, basic pull ups/push ups and the handstand you will find that you develop a strong foundation that will cause you to have steady forward progress and a lack of injuries.

Please, take the time to make sure your handstand is very good. Stomach to wall is the way to go here, because it allows you to find the position described and in the process builds a very strong and stable shoulder girdle.

Back to wall will always force you to arch until your shoulders are completely open, and you will have a much harder time developing the upper back muscles that help you to open the shoulders completely in this position. As Yuri has demonstrated, once you get to where your shoulders are open, back to wall can be useful for some press handstand drills but it isn't a very good idea when you are first starting out.

I've been trying to make sure I press my shoulders at all times only problem is the fear of tipping over I guess now.

How's your straddle-L?

Straddle L?

[Blairbob]

Straddle-L sit.

Can you do it on the floor or on low parallettes? Or do you need high ones.

120 degree straddle sit. Hmm, sounds pretty meager at best but doable.

Again, straddle-L tells me hip flexors and hip compression is not a problem. Inability to do one tells me that it is.

Weights are fine, imo. Good for assistance work. I don't think they are very necessary for upper body development but they are good assistance.

For someone who can only work partial ROM HSPU, HeSPU; I like the use of weights. So much more exact than bands.

My friend is fond of bench press with his female gymnasts but I'm not, mainly because it's a pain in the butt and requires a bench and stands or adults as spotters. I also have shoulder problems so I don't like BP but I don't mind supinated grip BP (which is too much of a pain) or DB BP (which is good, imo) I'd rather see them work BW horizontal work. Planche stuff, ring pushups. He also likes push-press which I am fond of. Often they clean the bar but I'd prefer to see them use stands or coaches to spot up the bar.

As much as I love the Olympic lifts, I doubt I would train any of them with my gymnasts given risk of injury and time required to train them with it. I can't justify an injured wrist in a clean for a gymnasts and these happen more than enough of the time. Snatching on the shoulder...ehh. Power or alternating Split Jerk maybe but might as well just push press. I do like the idea of Pulls though be it Deadlift or DL variants except Sumo, or Chinese pulls or Romanian/Stiff Leg deadlifts.

Good mornings are good but I'd probably just stick with Romanian/Stiff Leg deadlifts.

For squats, I'd probably just stick to some form of weighted single leg squat. DB in each hand. Either a step-up or raising the rear leg.

[Deadlocked007]

Straddle-L sit.

Can you do it on the floor or on low parallettes? Or do you need high ones.

120 degree straddle sit. Hmm, sounds pretty meager at best but doable.

Again, straddle-L tells me hip flexors and hip compression is not a problem. Inability to do one tells me that it is.

Weights are fine, imo. Good for assistance work. I don't think they are very necessary for upper body development but they are good assistance.

For someone who can only work partial ROM HSPU, HeSPU; I like the use of weights. So much more exact than bands.

My friend is fond of bench press with his female gymnasts but I'm not, mainly because it's a pain in the butt and requires a bench and stands or adults as spotters. I also have shoulder problems so I don't like BP but I don't mind supinated grip BP (which is too much of a pain) or DB BP (which is good, imo) I'd rather see them work BW horizontal work. Planche stuff, ring pushups. He also likes push-press which I am fond of. Often they clean the bar but I'd prefer to see them use stands or coaches to spot up the bar.

As much as I love the Olympic lifts, I doubt I would train any of them with my gymnasts given risk of injury and time required to train them with it. I can't justify an injured wrist in a clean for a gymnasts and these happen more than enough of the time. Snatching on the shoulder...ehh. Power or alternating Split Jerk maybe but might as well just push press. I do like the idea of Pulls though be it Deadlift or DL variants except Sumo, or Chinese pulls or Romanian/Stiff Leg deadlifts.

Good mornings are good but I'd probably just stick with Romanian/Stiff Leg deadlifts.

For squats, I'd probably just stick to some form of weighted single leg squat. DB in each hand. Either a step-up or raising the rear leg.

Yep I can do it I've been working on getting into a v sit and then from there working on straddle manna but yeah I got it with straight legs although I feel I may have only gone to about 115 degrees. I can do it on the paralettes also.

[Craig Rackemann]

For someone who can only work partial ROM HSPU, HeSPU; I like the use of weights. So much more exact than bands.

Is this to work full ROM or to build volume?

[Blairbob]

A bit of both, Craig but mainly for the easier progressions. Once you get to the harder progressions, you don't need this assistance as much, imo.

But this was also for me, as I was building back up. I was building back slowly because if I ramp too fast, my body does not like it. So it wasn't as if I never had any strength. Nothing great, but at least intermediate level strength and ability.

[Beldor]

Echo: Hollow Body Holds

Also,

I have added an additional static hold to my routine to help specifically with my straddle press to handstands.

I got the idea here: http://www.fedec.eu/datas/files/m6(uk).pdf (A fantastic hand balancing resource)

Page 6. "Straddle fold on hands, against wall"

I applied BtGB techniques. I did not have the strength or flexibility to be able to do these at first, so I designed my own progressions. It should also be noted that I cannot yet do a straddle press to handstand. However, my progress stagnated until I started these. It should also be noted that I recently added an Integrated exercise that is essentially a full ROM weighted straight leg hydrant lift- and it seems to be helping tremendously as far as Rate of Perceived Effort (RPE) on the exercises over the last 3 weeks- partially attributed to neurological stimulation and partially attributed to the pairing of the exercises.

Progressions and notes are as follows:

Treat like a Fundamental Static Position (FSP) in volume sets of 60 sec in a Steady State Cycle (SSC) as described by Coach.

1. Bent Leg Hydrant Holds. Bring leg in the air and hold at the top position. Make sure not to go past 90 degrees.

http://www.stack.com/2012/10/31/fire-hydrants/

2. Ankle Weighted Bent Leg Hydrant Holds. (Adding weight appropriately to anything will make it a progression)

3. Straight Leg Hydrant Holds. Same thing, but now straighten the leg to increase the leverage.

4. Ankle Weighted Straight leg hydrant holds.

5. Straddle Fold Wall Holds (SFWH as I call them out in my workout plan). w/o shoes

*Note when you get to this stage, it is important to note how flexibility will make a large difference. The more flexibility you have, the more you are able to fold, and therefore the closer the shoulders and hips are in a vertical line. At first, if you lack flexibility, you will have an extremely difficult time pressing your shoulders down because you will have to press down AND against the wall in order to maintain equilibrium. At the same time, you have to abduct the legs away from the body as in all the previous progressions- No easy task. If you arms begin to bend because you lack shoulder strength, it is my honest opinion that you need to spend time doing more straight arm work as found in the planche progressions where the legs are tucked or behind the body. I had to stop and spend time working on planche work AND I kicked my flexibility training into higher gear.

6. SFWH w/ shoes (the added weight makes a difference).

This is where I am now with 12 second sets with 5 weeks left in my SSC. It doesn't seem like much......

7. SFWH w/ ankle weights.

This would be the obvious next progression. Although, I'm not sure if it is completely necessary. One thing I would recommend before moving onto this is increasing the quality and Range of the non-weighted version first. This also applies to ANYTHING when you are adding weights to make it a progression. Quality is far more important than adding weight or leverage for the sake of "moving forward".

Hope this helps!

[Rik de Kort]

Can you throw up the manual somewhere on the internet, like mediashare?

[Beldor]

I just realized I sent the link to my downloads folder (duh).

I corrected the link in my main post.

-

Beldor

[Deadlocked007]

Echo: Hollow Body Holds

Also,

I have added an additional static hold to my routine to help specifically with my straddle press to handstands.

I got the idea here: http://www.fedec.eu/datas/files/m6(uk).pdf (A fantastic hand balancing resource)

Page 6. "Straddle fold on hands, against wall"

I applied BtGB techniques. I did not have the strength or flexibility to be able to do these at first, so I designed my own progressions. It should also be noted that I cannot yet do a straddle press to handstand. However, my progress stagnated until I started these. It should also be noted that I recently added an Integrated exercise that is essentially a full ROM weighted straight leg hydrant lift- and it seems to be helping tremendously as far as Rate of Perceived Effort (RPE) on the exercises over the last 3 weeks- partially attributed to neurological stimulation and partially attributed to the pairing of the exercises.

Progressions and notes are as follows:

Treat like a Fundamental Static Position (FSP) in volume sets of 60 sec in a Steady State Cycle (SSC) as described by Coach.

1. Bent Leg Hydrant Holds. Bring leg in the air and hold at the top position. Make sure not to go past 90 degrees.

http://www.stack.com/2012/10/31/fire-hydrants/

2. Ankle Weighted Bent Leg Hydrant Holds. (Adding weight appropriately to anything will make it a progression)

3. Straight Leg Hydrant Holds. Same thing, but now straighten the leg to increase the leverage.

4. Ankle Weighted Straight leg hydrant holds.

5. Straddle Fold Wall Holds (SFWH as I call them out in my workout plan). w/o shoes

*Note when you get to this stage, it is important to note how flexibility will make a large difference. The more flexibility you have, the more you are able to fold, and therefore the closer the shoulders and hips are in a vertical line. At first, if you lack flexibility, you will have an extremely difficult time pressing your shoulders down because you will have to press down AND against the wall in order to maintain equilibrium. At the same time, you have to abduct the legs away from the body as in all the previous progressions- No easy task. If you arms begin to bend because you lack shoulder strength, it is my honest opinion that you need to spend time doing more straight arm work as found in the planche progressions where the legs are tucked or behind the body. I had to stop and spend time working on planche work AND I kicked my flexibility training into higher gear.

6. SFWH w/ shoes (the added weight makes a difference).

This is where I am now with 12 second sets with 5 weeks left in my SSC. It doesn't seem like much......

7. SFWH w/ ankle weights.

This would be the obvious next progression. Although, I'm not sure if it is completely necessary. One thing I would recommend before moving onto this is increasing the quality and Range of the non-weighted version first. This also applies to ANYTHING when you are adding weights to make it a progression. Quality is far more important than adding weight or leverage for the sake of "moving forward".

Hope this helps!

Thank you!!!

Can you throw up the manual somewhere on the internet, like mediashare?

Here you go

https://www.dropbox.com/s/azcshuavq60vhwf/m6%28uk%29.pdf

I just realized I sent the link to my downloads folder (duh).

I corrected the link in my main post.

-

Beldor

Double fail I got it though for you!

[Joshua Naterman]

This is virtually exactly what the progressions already are, if you didn't know that. Have you not read Coach's HS press page?

One thing I have found to be helpful for me, personally, is straddle press negatives with feet against the wall. I have stopped trying to use these as a press element so much as a strength element since this helps me get the feel for correct body position in the handstand.

Once you have proper extension in the shoulders, such as being able to do the preparation exercises on page 2 of that manual, AND the strength built through proper wall HS and the feet-to-wall straddle press negatives the press itself shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[Beldor]

This is virtually exactly what the progressions already are, if you didn't know that. Have you not read Coach's HS press page?

I did not realize. I have not read Coach's HS press page, and with the new format I am having trouble finding it. Can you send a link?

I do not want to take credit for the progression as if I invented it. At the same time, it is nice to know that using the principles of BtGB I am able to create "proper" progressions without knowing the established methods.

[Rik de Kort]

This is virtually exactly what the progressions already are, if you didn't know that. Have you not read Coach's HS press page?

I actually can't find it. And I've been all over the site the last couple of weeks.

Beldor, it's not so much the progressions, but more the integration into a comprehensive program that 'needs' inventing, so to speak.

[Joshua Naterman]

Beldor, I absolutely agree that the ability to recognize and create proper progressions is the most important thing!

I will have to see if I can still find this, but I am positive that at some point Coach detailed the steps to a straddle press.