Some rings questions.

[Yaad Mohammad]

Hello guys! Got myself pair of rings for in my room, I'm not exactly new to rings, but I never focused on really training on them.

So I've got a few questions I was hoping you guys can answer.

1. How can I get a better false grip? I always seem to lose the grip after one muscle-up, and that's not the only problem. I can't lock out my arms with a false grip, it's just not possible, I'll immediately slip out.

2. Should I train planches on rings? My goal is to get a full planche, I don't care if it's on the rings, but does it really help to have one on the rings? I can do a nice 15 seconds advanced tuck planche on the ground, but I can barely hold a 30 second tuck planche on the rings. I keep on shaking, whereas I don't shake when I am in the support position.

3. What's it called when you do skin the cat but with a fully extended body? Meaning going from front-lever to back-lever completely straight?

4. For the Iron Cross, once you get all the prequirites, excluding a planche on rings, is it completely safe to train them?

That's all for now, I'm sure I will ask more questions once these are answered!

Thanks!

[Joshua Slocum]

1. You'll get better with more practice. It's something you learn. One thing to note is that you can't really maintain a false grip while in a support position, so when doing consecutive muscle ups you need to learn how to shift your hands from a support grip to a false grip on the way down.

2. Yes, you should train them on the rings. The reason you shake on rings is because the muscles you use to steady your arms are not as strong as they should be: by training planches on rings, you'll work out those muscles, and with time you'll be able to hold steady.

3. If you go from there back to a front lever it's called a tick-tock. I don't know if just doing it half-way has a name.

4. No, nothing is completely safe to train. However, if you are properly prepared and are conscientious about warming up well, performing adequate supplementary exercises and stretching, and not overworking your joints, you should be able to train the skill with no major risk of injury.

[Yaad Mohammad]

Alright thanks! I've got two more questions regarding question 1 and 2.

1. Are there exercises that are made to train the false grip

2. Will I notice a big change when going from ring planche training to ground planche training in my planche strength?

[George Vere]

Working negatives and sliding back in to false grip helped my muscle ups, and feet supported (or band assisted) muscle ups helped even more.

I think you should wait until you've at least got a good straddle planche on the floor before working planche on the rings. Planche on the rings puts significantly more stress on the elbows and should be treated with caution.

[Karri Kytömaa]

False grip is something you just need to train. I think hanging is the most important thing but you should also do some pullups to adjust to the stress your put on your wrists. Having chalk helps a ton, I have practiced false grip hangs and pullups for several months without using chalk and I finally can do MU keeping false grip on the way down which is a problem for me too. However if I have chalk, I can keep my false grip in about any position for long times.

[Yaad Mohammad]

Alright, that cleared up the false-grip part. But Hercules claims that a planche shouldn't be trained before being able to do a good straddle planche? I'm not sure if that's right. Can anybody help us out here?

[alec_ar]

I don't know if you read Hercules post properly. He meant that you should only begin basic planche work on the rings if you have a solid straddle planche on the floor. Planche on the floor is a B skill in the official code of points and on rings planche bumps up to a C skill. Most everybody will find that planche on rings is considerably more challenging than its floor version.

He was also spot on when he said that Rings planche puts more force on your body than a floor or parallel bar planche. That being so, serious focus on rings planche should begin only when your connective tissues are ready for it. Hope that helped.

PS: coach Sommer himself has stated that most hard working fitness enthusiasts should be able to achieve a floor planche, but not necessarily a rings planche.

[Yaad Mohammad]

I get that, but I wouldn't mind being able to do them on rings. Matter o' fact, I do want to be able to do that. I'm currently almost at 20 sec advanced tuck planche.

Also, I just did 5 muscle-ups on the rings! I also managed to go from normal grip to false-grip in an exercise, here is the video:

_Euwi7I6TYc

So, as you can see, I don't fully stretch out my arms because I lose the grip in the muscle-up.

Also, I have a question:

How can one develop a muscle-up on the rings without a false-grip? I can do 10 muscle-ups with no false-grip on the bar with ease and I can do 5 muscle-ups with false-grip on the rings, no stretched arms.

[Alessandro Mainente]

simple try to extend the arms little by little...the difficult point is that the muscle up with fase grip and from relaxed position need to have the forearms muscle contracted and in the same time elongated..so this is not a natural situation for a muscle. is normal feel some problem at the beginning...pratice aside the false grip hang at the bar or at the rings is something that i always include when someone wants to develop the muscle up

[Brian Li]

How can one develop a muscle-up on the rings without a false-grip? I can do 10 muscle-ups with no false-grip on the bar with ease and I can do 5 muscle-ups with false-grip on the rings, no stretched arms.

You would have to either do a kipping pull-up or a fast and powerful pull-up. It could also be done slow and without momentum, but it's insanely difficult if you start with neutral wrists or not much harder than false grip MUs if you start with a support grip and flexed wrists. You just have to get very strong with slow false grip MUs and also work negatives and holds at the transition without the false grip.

[Yaad Mohammad]

simple try to extend the arms little by little...the difficult point is that the muscle up with fase grip and from relaxed position need to have the forearms muscle contracted and in the same time elongated..so this is not a natural situation for a muscle. is normal feel some problem at the beginning...pratice aside the false grip hang at the bar or at the rings is something that i always include when someone wants to develop the muscle up

Thanks, I'll try this.

How can one develop a muscle-up on the rings without a false-grip? I can do 10 muscle-ups with no false-grip on the bar with ease and I can do 5 muscle-ups with false-grip on the rings, no stretched arms.

You would have to either do a kipping pull-up or a fast and powerful pull-up. It could also be done slow and without momentum, but it's insanely difficult if you start with neutral wrists or not much harder than false grip MUs if you start with a support grip and flexed wrists. You just have to get very strong with slow false grip MUs and also work negatives and holds at the transition without the false grip.

Looks like I need to master a false-grip MU first. Well thanks anyway

I have yet another question.

Are there some good drills for handstands on the rings?

[Daniel Burnham]

simple try to extend the arms little by little...the difficult point is that the muscle up with fase grip and from relaxed position need to have the forearms muscle contracted and in the same time elongated..so this is not a natural situation for a muscle. is normal feel some problem at the beginning...pratice aside the false grip hang at the bar or at the rings is something that i always include when someone wants to develop the muscle up

Thanks, I'll try this.

How can one develop a muscle-up on the rings without a false-grip? I can do 10 muscle-ups with no false-grip on the bar with ease and I can do 5 muscle-ups with false-grip on the rings, no stretched arms.

You would have to either do a kipping pull-up or a fast and powerful pull-up. It could also be done slow and without momentum, but it's insanely difficult if you start with neutral wrists or not much harder than false grip MUs if you start with a support grip and flexed wrists. You just have to get very strong with slow false grip MUs and also work negatives and holds at the transition without the false grip.

Looks like I need to master a false-grip MU first. Well thanks anyway

I have yet another question.

Are there some good drills for handstands on the rings?

First thing for handstands on rings is a good handstand on the ground and then a really good ring support. I wouldnt work handstands on rings until you have at least a solid 60 sec support on rings.

After that you just sort of press up (or climb with legs) to the handstand and practice. Be sure to turn the rings out and not to curl the rings in for leverage against your wrists. People usually suggest to keep rings low to ground to make it easy to get in and out of, but I like it sort of high so that I can swing out when I fall. Just my preference though.

[Yaad Mohammad]

Well, I got a solid 60 second support and I can hold a handstand for more than 60 sec on the ground and pbars with good form. I can also do a 30 sec wiggling pbar thingy handstand. Problem is, I can't press myself up to a handstand on the rings. On the ground I can go to handstand 3 times from l-sit (no straight arms). But I can't do any of these on rings, and on bars they are also much harder. Can only do one on bars with struggle and bad form. So I think I should train HSPU's and handstand pressing.

I also have a really interesting question. I was messing around and found out that I could hold an assisted one arm front lever and I could do straddle front lever pull-ups. Are these useful to train? If so, for what movements?

[Daniel Burnham]

Well, I got a solid 60 second support and I can hold a handstand for more than 60 sec on the ground and pbars with good form. I can also do a 30 sec wiggling pbar thingy handstand. Problem is, I can't press myself up to a handstand on the rings. On the ground I can go to handstand 3 times from l-sit (no straight arms). But I can't do any of these on rings, and on bars they are also much harder. Can only do one on bars with struggle and bad form. So I think I should train HSPU's and handstand pressing.

I also have a really interesting question. I was messing around and found out that I could hold an assisted one arm front lever and I could do straddle front lever pull-ups. Are these useful to train? If so, for what movements?

Sounds like you might be ready.

Training hspu will help getting up there but won't help handstand much. You can try turning upside down and climbing with your legs up the straps or starting with the rings close to the floor and hoping into it. Caution it will hurt if you crash on your head.

Idk what an assisted one arm front lever would look like. If you mean fl pulls when you said pull-ups the. The other is good for working lever strength and pulling strength in general.

[Blairbob]

1. Press HS, locked arms is not an easy skill on rings. It's rated a B, same as an Iron Cross.

2. Start false grip work just in body row fashion. Holds for time, pullups. You could do the same in hang but keep your toes on the ground or a box to take off some of the weight. Some of it is just stretching out the wrists and forearm muscles.

3. Your MU is too fast currently and a bit odd. Especially that sort of kipped/MU/bent arm ring kip.

4. Coach Sommer calls a Skin the Cat, a 360 pull. So it would just be a straight body 360 pull. It's not really an official or colloquial skill. "Skin the Cat" sort of is a nicknamed skill but that same skill sometimes it's called other things. I remember one of the gyms I worked for tried to come up with more PC friendly names for it because they didn't want to tell kids we were skinning cats, especially 3-6yo. My boys could have cared less as the rest of the other school-age children.

[Coach Sommer]

... Coach Sommer calls a Skin the Cat, a 360 pull ...

This is incorrect.

I do not refer to Skin the Cats as 360 pulls; although I do usually refer to them as German Hangs.

A 360 Pull is a movement which begins in a German Hang, pulls out to an inverted hang, lowers to a straight arm hang and then returns once more to the German Hang having completed two arcs of 360 degrees. Hence the name 360 Pulls.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[alec_ar]

I think Blairbob may have meant a straight arm-straight body skin the cat is a 360 Pull. Is this correct?

[Coach Sommer]

I think Blairbob may have meant a straight arm-straight body skin the cat is a 360 Pull. Is this correct?

No, it is not. All German Hangs are by definition done with straight arms and a straight body.

A great deal of this confusion of terms can be avoided by a more careful reading of BtGB.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[alec_ar]

Studying the book again would be helpful. I thought a skin the cat was a dead hang pull through with straight arms but a semi tucked body to German hang and back. I guess a straight body skin the cat would be similar to a 360 pull, but not the same.

[Blairbob]

Apparently.

[Larry Roseman]

Question on tick-tock variant.  I know there was a write-up somewhere but can't find it, and it may or may not have discussed this.

 

I was watching a movie with Nicolas Cage in which he played Ned Hanlan, who was a world champion rower in the late 19th century. Actually he was using rings as part of his training (at least in the movie). He was doing a variant of the tick tock - but bent arm - head at least starting out and ending up above the bottom of the ring. Tuck back and front levers - if you can call them that - with good form. 

 

Anyway, tried this and it seems quite a bit harder than straight arm and am wondering if there is a name for it, if it has more shoulder involvement or what benefit it would impart compared to the straight arm version? Coudn't do a good rep actually. Is it a safe exercise?

 

Cheers!

[Yaad Mohammad]

Question on tick-tock variant.  I know there was a write-up somewhere but can't find it, and it may or may not have discussed this.

 

I was watching a movie with Nicolas Cage in which he played Ned Hanlan, who was a world champion rower in the late 19th century. Actually he was using rings as part of his training (at least in the movie). He was doing a variant of the tick tock - but bent arm - head at least starting out and ending up above the bottom of the ring. Tuck back and front levers - if you can call them that - with good form. 

 

Anyway, tried this and it seems quite a bit harder than straight arm and am wondering if there is a name for it, if it has more shoulder involvement or what benefit it would impart compared to the straight arm version? Coudn't do a good rep actually. Is it a safe exercise?

 

Cheers!

I can't really image the exercise. Do you mean the 360 pull that I did in my video but then with bend arms?

[alec_ar]

I'm trying to find a clip if it, cause I'm intrigued, but if its really Nicolas Cage doing it, whatever it is I doubt it's as hard as a straight arm tick-tock.

[Larry Roseman]

I'm trying to find a clip if it, cause I'm intrigued, but if its really Nicolas Cage doing it, whatever it is I doubt it's as hard as a straight arm tick-tock.

It looked like him. Must have been early 20s and in really good shape! Name of the film was "boy in blue". They also had an old fashioned rowing machine that was pretty cool in it.

 

[Larry Roseman]

I can't really image the exercise. Do you mean the 360 pull that I did in my video but then with bend arms?

Where is your video?