Quick Start Test Smith Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Sup GB!While perusing Ido Portal's youtube channel, I saw that his latest video was about OAC and gymnastics training. In it, there were four guys who could each do a full OAC (on rings). This made me wonder if most gymnasts can do OAC. It seems like something they could do without training for it or easily achieve it without too much specific training.Is this true for Coach's gymnasts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Fraser Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Good question, I seem to remember Dillon saying at some point he was one of the only or maybe the only athlete at Coach's gym who could do one...I'll have a look Here it is viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4833&p=39980#p39980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Start Test Smith Posted October 13, 2012 Author Share Posted October 13, 2012 That's helpful. Thanks, ed.f. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I'm not really sure if OACs are actually common in gymnastics or not, but from what i've heard they are pretty common. I remember a few gymnasts on these forums including Gregor saying they can do OACs/OAPs without ever specifically training them. I have also heard that there is a lot of carryover between OACs and iron crosses and that 3 OACs on each arm would give you an iron cross for a few seconds and vice-versa. Not sure how true that is, but Jack Arnow and Jasper Benincasa both could do an iron cross without training for it and they were both strong one arm chinners. I was also able to do a full OAC without specific training and just by training front levers. So I do think OACs are probably pretty common especially for elite men's gymnastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 ... I have also heard that there is a lot of carryover between OACs and iron crosses and that 3 OACs on each arm would give you an iron cross for a few seconds and vice-versa ... No.Perhaps for a bent arm iron cross, however for a straight arm iron cross this is completely inaccurate. While good supplemental training, no amount of bent arm strength will adequately prepare the brachialis for straight arm strength work. Otherwise all of those OAC video participants would also be showing their iron crosses.... Not sure how true that is, but Jack Arnow and Jasper Benincasa both could do an iron cross without training for it and they were both strong one arm chinners ... Perhaps, perhaps not. Without video there is really no way to verify this.... I seem to remember Dillon saying at some point he was one of the only or maybe the only athlete at Coach's gym who could do one...Dillon achieved OAC because this was an exercise that I specifically trained him for after he stopped competing. For the other athletes who were still competing, I found that reverse muscle-ups actually had a far more beneficial effect on ring strength development than OAC work.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Start Test Smith Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Thanks for personally replying Coach.I'm a long way off from working on reverse muscle ups, but I will concentrate on cirques and rope climbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I can do 2 one arm chins on the left and 1 on the right, I am nowhere near an Iron Cross and feel like the OAC is a not an efficient method of trying to get an Iron Cross. Heck I can't even hold a front lever for more than a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I can do 2 one arm chins on the left and 1 on the right, I am nowhere near an Iron Cross and feel like the OAC is a not an efficient method of trying to get an Iron Cross. Heck I can't even hold a front lever for more than a second.This is exactly correct. Rather amusing actually that the many of the people who claim that OAC work builds tremendous amounts of advanced ring strength are those who have a OAC and yet still do not possess a high level of ring strength. Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I would like to test that claim for the iron cross when I know I have adequate elbow and tendon conditioning for it. For OACs I can do 2 on my left and 1 on right currently and I'll wait to have at least 3 on each arm to see if the pulling strength is enough for the iron cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADRIANO FLORES CANO Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I think that if a medium-high gymnast (High School and so on) can do a front/back lever, iron crosses, and another impressive things on rings with an extreme ability, OAC must be for them like pushups for us. Besides, and like Coach says, I don't think and OAC/OAP have an important benefit for a gymnast compared to other skills more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I think that if a medium-high gymnast (High School and so on) can do a front/back lever, iron crosses, and another impressive things on rings with an extreme ability, OAC must be for them like pushups for us. Besides, and like Coach says, I don't think and OAC/OAP have an important benefit for a gymnast compared to other skills more difficult.I don't know many male gymnasts, but I knew a couple at college level. One of them was able to do a OAC with an added 35 lbs. HOWEVER he specifically trained for that skill as he also competed in arm wrestling. His team mate told me that he was the only guy on the team that could do them with such ease. A few others were close though, they could do pretty good negatives and I believe a few could do 1 with significant struggle. So from that one small experience I'd say that unless you actually train OAC you will not be doing them with ease like pushups.Oh and on OAC and straight arm work. A few years ago I got to talk to John Gill about his training and when asked about OAC and correlation to front levers and Iron cross work his words were "Little Correlation." He does credit his rope climbing for building most of his strength though as he never actually trained for moves like a OAC or a one arm front lever, said they both were just a natural side effect of his rope climbing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I think that if a medium-high gymnast (High School and so on) can do a front/back lever, iron crosses, and another impressive things on rings with an extreme ability, OAC must be for them like pushups for us. Besides, and like Coach says, I don't think and OAC/OAP have an important benefit for a gymnast compared to other skills more difficult.I disagree that medium-high gymnasts would find OACs/OAPs as easy as push-ups. Strong gymnasts and rings specialists may find OACs/OAPs pretty easy, but not push-up easy otherwise we would be hearing about people who can do 30+ OACs in one set on a single arm. I'm talking about full ROM (bar to chest) OACs and from deadhang by the way, a majority of OACs on youtube are not full ROM and deadhang. The most strict OACs/OAPs ever done in one set for a single arm I heard of is 10 and that's from someone who specializes in it. The heaviest weighted OAC/OAP I've seen on youtube is +30-35 lbs. Remember that Dillon said he was the only one of Coach's gymnasts who could do a OAC and that was not from deadhang.I do agree that OACs are not important in gymnastics training and conditioning. OACs are a good display of pulling strength and may strengthen the inner elbows and tendons for advanced ring elements to some extent, but there are much better exercises for that in gymnastics. I find that a OAC requires about the same amount of lat strength for a full front lever and also has pretty good carryover to the OAFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADRIANO FLORES CANO Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 It's strange because in BtGB Coach says that FSP have correlation with pulling strenght. In the stories at the end of the book, some people trained only FSP such as tuck planche, front/back lever and then before 2-3 months their pulling strenght in pullups increase quite a lof. It's true that one thing is pullups and another is and OAC, but both are a Pulling move... For your experience, seems like that those gymnast struggling for and OAC, few years later they will be able to do it without specific training, maybe not that easy that perform pushups, but 1-2 at lest, II guess. I think you're right saying that and OAC has a specific training, and it's completely truth, and maybe I have compared to easily OAC with pushups in gimnast mid-hight level, but I think that pulling strenght skills in gimnastics must have correlation with OAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Gymnastics pulling skills definitely have carryover to pull-ups and OACs. It's possible to get OACs without specific training, but that may not be true to some as it can be variable between different people. I've actually achieved OAC without specific training and just by doing front lever work. I have recently found out I could do 2 consecutive OACs on one of my arms and I don't do OACs that much. I have also heard of some gymnasts being able to do one or more OACs/OAPs on their first try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADRIANO FLORES CANO Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Gymnastics pulling skills definitely have carryover to pull-ups and OACs. It's possible to get OACs without specific training, but that may not be true to some as it can be variable between different people. I've actually achieved OAC without specific training and just by doing front lever work. I have recently found out I could do 2 consecutive OACs on one of my arms and I don't do OACs that much. I have also heard of some gymnasts being able to do one or more OACs/OAPs on their first try.Then, the fact that FSP have correlation with pulling strenght it's completely right, since you can do 2 consecutive OAC without specific training and just training for FL. If so, I don't know then if I have to train OAC specific or FL work What would be the difference so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Keep in mind that I was also very strong with bicep curls before I started training front levers. I'm not sure how much elbow flexor strength is necessary in an OAC, but I'd imagine it doesn't take that much, but a decent amount and front levers don't work the biceps at all. So I think if you had weak biceps and only trained FL to get an OAC, then you probably won't be able to get it unless you work on curls or do OAC specific work.I first got an OAC when I was at 2-4 seconds full FL. I got 2 OACs when I was at about 8-10 seconds full FL and I also found out I could do a decent full OAFL at that time too. I remember 2 years ago I got an OAP at about 7 seconds full FL. Also, I did do some OACs from time to time in my workouts after I've gotten my first and before I had 2 OACs, but the volume was not much by any means and didn't really contribute to get 2 OACs. I attribute it all to increasing the hold time and strength for the FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Mallett Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Here is a dude doing 70 OAC (some weighted) over the course of 30 mins: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 That is Cisco and he is one of the strongest one arm pullers I've ever seen. He can to an OAP with 35 lbs and 5-7 good OAPs on each arm. OAPs/OACs are easy for him for sure, but still not THAT easy for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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