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Quick Start Test Smith

A question of TUT and reps

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Quick Start Test Smith

What is the physiological difference between five push ups with a 505 tempo and a set of 30 push ups that take about a minute to do (2s/rep)?

*typo

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Quick Start Test Smith

*bump*

Most coaches I know of (except Coach Sommer of course) don't use high TUT as much as they use high rep. Can anyone explain what the difference is?

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Fluidity

For me ever since I started doing TUT in a 505 tempo with my exercises I've gotten really good increases in hypertrophy, and based on what i heard on another website TUT builds body awareness aka your mind body connection (kinesthetic sense). Another really big thing that TUT does is that is REALLY HELPS build your connective tissue. I've done front and back lever tuck a long time ago but after a while they were a little too strenuous for me on my joints, so I stopped for a while. Then after putting TUT on my routine for a few months, I tried the levers again yesterday, and I felt no strain on my joints whatsoever, in fact I felt a lot stronger after doing the levers. So yeah TUT does have a really good effect on building and strengthening connective tissue, based on my experience.

You should go ask Joshua for more info since he is the one who got me into it. he knows more about it than I do. That is all I know on TUT.

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Quick Start Test Smith

That's right, I forgot about the benefit to connective tissue. Good point!

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Joshua Naterman

Fluidity actually hit on several key points, which makes me happy :) I like seeing people really start to understand what they are doing and why!

The super slow movements allow you to really refine your movement patterns, identify exactly where you are weak or recruiting muscles improperly, and fix these problems.

Because you are moving more slowly with the 505 tempo than the 101 tempo, you are recruiting less muscle mass at any one time. This allows you to fatigue the more fatigue-resistant fast twitch motor groups as well as the supporting musculature (as opposed to the prime movers).

The 101 tempo has you moving the same mass much faster, which means you must produce much more force. This requires much more muscle mass to be recruited at any one time. You will fatigue faster as a result, because you will be limited by the more fatiguable fast twitch fibers, but you will also build more prime mover strength and less supporting musculature strength due to the nature of the movement rates and effects this has on the net instability of the joint. You are always more unstable when you move slowly, at the joint level. If you feel more unstable when you move fast, that is telling you that your SITS and scapular muscles (in the case of push ups) are simply not strong enough to properly handle the level of force moving through the shoulders at that speed with that load (bodyweight in this case).

Also, because you are exposing the connective tissue to much less force, you are far less likely to push past the point of injury. You will be able to tell and adjust position or intensity accordingly.

One does not replace the other, but rather the slow provides an excellent tool with which to correct your movement and build up the stability that will enhance your progress with the fast movements.

Three weeks ago I saw a guy squatting and asked him if I could point out three things that were keeping his squat from getting stronger. He was enthusiastic to hear, so we talked for about 4 minutes and I walked him through what to do (I asked him if I could give him homework and he said "sure!) Well, guess what: He actually did it. The homework involved slow work, using it as a tool to identify weakness and where form breaks happen; some foot gripping work to keep the knee more stable via increased ankle stability; and I can't remember if that was it or if there was more.

Results: He was telling me how he had plateau'd for months and couldn't break 360 in the squat for his 1RM. In the second week he caught me during some straight arm work and informed me that he just hit 365 for 8 reps. His previous 8RM was 345. This past week he caught me AGAIN and was like DUDE!!! I JUST HIT 385 FOR 6 REPS!!! WHY DIDN'T I MEET YOU SOONER?!?!

Sorry to toot my horn, just using a recent real-world example of a guy who was already pretty strong making enormous progress just by unlocking his hidden potential... Kind of like when the Old Namek unlocked Gohan's hidden potential during the Frieza saga. Nearly all of us have this inside us, hidden due to small things that send signals to the spinal cord saying "Hey alpha motor nerve, don't give it your all... just keep it at 70%."

I am now hitting 205 pretty easily on front squats, despite biking super hard nearly every day. Before doing the same work as I had this other guy do I could do 185 for 5 reasonable reps.

Slow movement for form correction and stabilizing strength: It makes a big difference.

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Quick Start Test Smith

It's nice to read a more detailed explanation. Thanks, Josh.

I just found a really old karate book in my attic and it inspired me to start practicing isometrics like Sanchin Kata and Ibuki breathing techniques. Slow movements seem to have a side benefit, like extreme or regular isometrics, of really strengthening that mind-body connection that Fluidity mentioned. And the process of breathing while contracting your muscles isometrically in Ibuki is basically the same kind of bracing used in deadlifting or squatting that I've read about.

You know, old fashioned karate-ka practiced something called hojo undo (if I remember correctly) and sanchin kata a lot. I haven't seen a ton of Hojo Undo but from what I saw, there are a lot of slow movements in it. It doesn't surprise me that so many old karate-ka still possess such physical power despite appearing out of shape. Amazing.

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Fluidity

I really like your explanation Josh, well done! :) By the way when it comes to slow TUT work I usually just keep the reps and sets the same and then progress by adding seconds until I hit 8-10 seconds on both the concentric and eccentric portion of my exercise. Once I hit my 8-10 second mark, should I just go to a more intense FBE, or would increasing the reps or sets be a good idea before going to a harder exercise? Is there any need to take a week off like Pavel mentions in his PTTP program when increasing intensity?

Along with that now that I've followed my TUT routine you mentioned to me, and now I'm planning on switching to building up my basic strength, which is increasing the amount of cyclinders I can use at one time, from what I remember in the car analogy you gave me. As for that, should I take a week off to let my nervous system reset, and get ready for the new training stimulus? Or can I just switch the days I do TUT with basic strength right away?

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Mats Trane

The super slow movements allow you to really identify exactly where you are weak or recruiting muscles improperly, and fix these problems.

Super Key!

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Joshua Naterman
I really like your explanation Josh, well done! :) By the way when it comes to slow TUT work I usually just keep the reps and sets the same and then progress by adding seconds until I hit 8-10 seconds on both the concentric and eccentric portion of my exercise. Once I hit my 8-10 second mark, should I just go to a more intense FBE, or would increasing the reps or sets be a good idea before going to a harder exercise? Is there any need to take a week off like Pavel mentions in his PTTP program when increasing intensity?

Along with that now that I've followed my TUT routine you mentioned to me, and now I'm planning on switching to building up my basic strength, which is increasing the amount of cyclinders I can use at one time, from what I remember in the car analogy you gave me. As for that, should I take a week off to let my nervous system reset, and get ready for the new training stimulus? Or can I just switch the days I do TUT with basic strength right away?

What you are doing is actually scaling the intensity down while increasing the volume. I think that this is a good strategy when learning the slow movements for the first time, say when you first start doing slow squats or PPP or something. Once you have the slow movements, if you've never done them before I do think it is a good idea to focus on them for 2-3 months just to really ingrain proper movement patterns. It takes that long to really get it down.

Once you've mastered the slow stuff, you need to mix it up. When you feel that you can move to a harder hand position or a heavier weight with perfect form, do so and then build volume into that harder position. That goes for the super slow movement as well as the faster stuff. Do not try to match them: Each will progress at its own pace, independently of the other. There will also be a massive difference between what you can do for one slow 505 rep and one slow 10-0-10 rep and three reps of 10-10-10. Focus on one speed each workout and switch it out. I would always do at least one 10-0-10 rep as warm up.

For speed warm ups, I tend to do each rep slightly faster than the rep before it, so first rep would be 10-0-10, second would be 5-0-5, 4-0-4, 3-0-3, and so on. I usually do 40-60s warm up sets, so that would be the first warm up. The second would start with 4-0-4 or so and get faster again, usually ending with fairly explosive reps. That's when I know it's time to do my first work set on heavy days.

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Fluidity

I really like the warm up ideas you posted Josh!! I will try them out. As for the effects of TUT, do you think doing things such as rotating push ups or rotating pull ups with TUT on rings will help strengthen my rotator cuff ligament? You see I sprained my rotator cuff ligament 9 months ago and after seeing the doctor he said to take a break for a few weeks, and that it wasn't anything serious just as long as I don't keep on partially dislocating my shoulder ligament and stretch it. Otherwise in that case I may need surgery but I never suffered any problems since then up until today. What happened is that after doing a lot of pull ups and hanging on a bar for a long time I may have put strain on my shoulder and weakened a ligament, and by that I mean stretch it a little.

Would you recommend TUT work over high rep work for building my connective tissue? If so do you think that the rotating exercises I mentioned are a good place to start? I just hope I can reshorten the ligament and strengthen it.

Along with that since I'm still new to the TUT work I'll stay with it for another month before mixing things up with basic strength. However once I do start a basic strength program should I do things with a linear program cycle or a SSC? I also remember you making an informative post on SSC somewhere on the forums.

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Redwan Haque

Bump! Interesting thread... some questions for Josh:

 

Once you've mastered the slow stuff, you need to mix it up. When you feel that you can move to a harder hand position or a heavier weight with perfect form, do so and then build volume into that harder position. That goes for the super slow movement as well as the faster stuff. Do not try to match them: Each will progress at its own pace, independently of the other. There will also be a massive difference between what you can do for one slow 505 rep and one slow 10-0-10 rep and three reps of 10-10-10. Focus on one speed each workout and switch it out. I would always do at least one 10-0-10 rep as warm up.

 

To clarify, does this mean throughout the week, I should do a mix of fast workouts, where my reps are around 101 tempo, where I'm aiming to up the intensity, and slower workouts where I'm trying to build up my TUT at a lower intensity? Say, for M/T/Th/F, Fast/Slow/Fast/Slow? And build up strength in both?

 

Eg. say for 2 weeks of PPPU (work sets). Say I can currently do sets of 3x5 with good form, hands 8 inches back.

 

Mon: Hands 8 inches back, 3x5 @ 101

Tue: Hands 7 inches back, 3x3 @ 505

 

Thu: Hands 8 inches back, 4x5 @ 101

Frid: Hands 7 inches back, 3x3 @ 606
 

 

Mon: Hands 8 inches back, 5x5 @ 101

Tue: Hands 7 inches back, 3x3 @ 707

 

Thu: Hands 9 inches back, 3x3 @ 101 (Attempt)

Frid: Hands 7 inches back, 3x3 @ 808

 

Something like that...? For the mixed weeks?

 

Also, by "mastering the slow stuff", do you mean that for a few weeks, focus should be only on increasing TUT?

 

Would there be "fast only" weeks too?

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FREDERIC DUPONT

This is a very interesting angle to beam the flashlight on TaiChi :)

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Andrew Long

Hmm I was wondering would it be better to start at 3x3 at a 101 tempo build up to 505 and then increase until you have 5x5 at 101 then 5x5 at 505 tempo before moving on to harder progressions? Or perhaps go 3x3 at. A 101 tempo until you have 5x5. Then build up to. 505 tempo before moving on to the next progression?

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Rikke Olsen

How would one structure it? Shoud it be done in phases, or could one mix TUT and regular strength in same workout?

 

Say, take the heavy training first, and then, in the same workout at an already rather fatigued state, do some TUT sets, or is it training for a Olympic marathon and O-lifting at the same time?

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