Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Paleo/Primal and the role of carbs.


Murray Truelove
 Share

Recommended Posts

I thought the first post, which I quoted, was unfair. This is a more balanced view and I cannot comment on the specifics of which he does not, according to your statements, understand. No offense from my side, but I did want to point out that the first statement sounded a bit rushed and unfair in my opinion, as per the points I brought up in my previous post.

 

Whether or not he is a balanced nutrition advisor I do not know. He changed his viewpoint on omega-3's and now he has changed his viewpoint on IF/ketosis state. He has always recommended carbs for people exercising, an anti-inflammatory paleo diet and a few supplements such as magnesium, vitamin d and fish oil (albeit now in smaller doses). I do think that is pretty balanced, though he may have been too much on the low carb side of things before..

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joshua Naterman

You are probably right, Razz. It is hard to keep things short and not lose meaning.

 

I think he still leans a little too heavily towards the supplementation, simply because if you have a diet that's high in vegetables (1-2 cups of cooked veggies at every meal), the only thing you're going to potentially be low on is sunlight :)

 

All the same, I have to agree. He's much more reasonable now than he was.

 

My apologies to all who were offended by the initial post on this matter, including you.

 

I edited the original post I made to be a bit more explanatory. It is, of course, now slightly longer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People will believe you a lot easier when they have gotten results from you once. That's all it takes then they're stuck.

Robb tells people to exercise and eat better food. This right here would give anyone gains. It also is a start to solving a lot if issues.

Joshua is there a specific thing he says about insulin that you disagree with? It seems like eat better and exercise would be a good start.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick Start Test Smith

You are probably right, Razz. It is hard to keep things short and not lose meaning.

 

I think he still leans a little too heavily towards the supplementation, simply because if you have a diet that's high in vegetables (1-2 cups of cooked veggies at every meal), the only thing you're going to potentially be low on is sunlight :)

 

All the same, I have to agree. He's much more reasonable now than he was.

 

My apologies to all who were offended by the initial post on this matter, including you.

 

I edited the original post I made to be a bit more explanatory. It is, of course, now slightly longer.

What kind of vegetables are convenient for you to eat cooked in so much volume, Josh? Broccoli? Potatoes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daniel Burnham

Those little square packages of frozen vegetables are the most convenient and cheap that I have found. Leaves are also very easy to prepare. Steaming takes almost not time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joshua Naterman

People will believe you a lot easier when they have gotten results from you once. That's all it takes then they're stuck.

Robb tells people to exercise and eat better food. This right here would give anyone gains. It also is a start to solving a lot if issues.

Joshua is there a specific thing he says about insulin that you disagree with? It seems like eat better and exercise would be a good start.

That is a good message, but in the low carb articles he has posted recently he still thinks LC could be useful for resistant populations, even though within two paragraphs he mentions that he's seen medical research that showed even better results with more carbs! That is just frustrating for me to read. I left a comment on his page about it, and haven't been back since so I don't know what, if anything, is waiting there for me.

 

That bit about people getting results is so true! That leads to a nasty can of worms, because people believe what they hear, and that has made the world of nutrition a complete mess. Exercise too, of course, but as long as people are out there moving they are better off than they were sitting on the couch. The same is not true for what is happening in the nutrition world (though I'll grant that in the grand scheme of things Robb's nowhere close to the worst offender).

If all Robb was saying was eat better food and exercise, you wouldn't here anything from me except "preach on, brotha'!" It's the specifics that bother me. Maybe I just feel a bit too strongly that people deserve to get the best, and that those of us who serve the public by being educators and enablers OWE our listeners the respect of treading especially carefully with our words when we write books, articles, or do anything of a public nature. We have to temper our strong beliefs with caution and concern for the casual listener's health, and that means that if we want to talk on a subject we need to really become an expert on it.

Eating better is always a good idea, but for diabetics the most important things are

1) Take your insulin before your meals

2) Resistance training, full body, 3 days per week minimum.

3) good (low GI, low-moderate GL, nutrient-dense) food choices

Food selection comes third on the list for them, because they are not like us. They do not readily gain insulin sensitivity, their glucose tolerance gets better through different mechanisms. That's part of why exercise is so important for them.

I can't remember if we talked about this, but basically we don't know exactly what's going on.

What we do know is that there is a ~3x increase in sodium-dependent glucose receptors after 16 weeks of the resistance training protocol described above, but virtually no change in GLUT-4, which is the transporter that insulin activates. Nonetheless, there are huge improvements in glucose tolerance in diabetics after 16 weeks, yet their insulin sensitivity has not improved anywhere near as much as it would for a non-diabetic. There's some improvement, because the sodium-dependent receptors do influence GLUT-4 sensitivity to insulin presence, but not nearly enough when there isn't significant proliferation of GLUT-4.

There is a very shallow trendline, so it's probably that with multiple years of consistently adhering to the resistance training they may be able to get their insulin sensitivity back to normal, but we have no idea if this is possible. According to the trendline, it would take at least 4-5 years to see the same increase in density that we see normal people achieve in 3 months.

That's actually the biggest problem with diabetics: they don't do a good job of getting the expressed GLUT-4 proteins to the membrane where they actually do something good!

We have absolutely no idea why that is at the moment.

As far as food selections for diabetics go, the primary concern is to limit carbohydrate intake to what they actually need. Normal people are far more capable of safely handling excess carbohydrate than the diabetics are.

I do still believe that it is very important for diabetics to make good food choices, that's why it's on the priority list, but we need to understand that their situation is very different than our own, and that the priorities for them are a bit different than they are for us.

Non-diabetics can change their situation to a much greater degree with diet alone than diabetics can, but for everyone that resistance training really is a must-have, and so is the food choice issue. I just believe they come in different orders in terms of absolute priority.

I have personally seen my father, who's been diabetic for 18 years, benefit from both, but the biggest thing that makes a difference for him is taking his insulin when he's supposed to, and eating the right amount of carbs. There's a small effect from food sourcing for him, in terms of blood sugar, but not as much as these other two factors.

I have had limited success getting him to exercise regularly, unfortunately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's very interesting about diabetes. I'm sure that will be the topic of a study soon! Thanks, Joshua.

I understand the frustration with feeling like people are paying for a lackluster product. It has caused me to change jobs several times before starting my own business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joshua Naterman

That's very interesting about diabetes. I'm sure that will be the topic of a study soon! Thanks, Joshua.

I understand the frustration with feeling like people are paying for a lackluster product. It has caused me to change jobs several times before starting my own business.

Yea. Realistically, I can see good arguments for me not being so harsh with statements, because like Razz has said Robb does get a whole lot of people doing much better than they were before.

 

I hope there is a long term tracking of diabetics, like over a 5 year period, with monthly check ups to make sure people are staying on the 3x per week full body regimen, and checking cell receptor density every 6 months or so. That would be fantastic, I mean it would be so useful to know if the trendline continues to be linear, or if it tops out at some point, or if it increases... I could see this being a gateway to figuring out what signaling or transport mechanisms are getting messed up in diabetics, as well as being able to get a real baseline for what a diabetic lifestyle truly needs to be.

 

I can already tell that I will probably end up running my own clinic(s), and lord knows what else, simply because what I believe in is largely against what the Great Machine seems to want (in terms of its own raw financial gain).

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
Nimmigimmi

Hi everyone

 

This topic is very interesting. I study medicine and the studying just doesn`t cover enough details for nutrition.

 

 

In the past I have read the Carb Backloading ebook of John Kiefer and thought it makes a lot of sense.

 

 

For myself I stayed ultra lowcarb during the day and after my workout I ate a lot of fast Carbs (of course also protein).

I had most of my calories AFTER my workout (in the evening).

 

I always felt great and if I sticked to it I made huge improvement (regarding body fat and performance)

 

 

I also find intermittent fasting interesting. It seems that it works for a lot of people and it kinda makes sense to me.

 

 

 

What do you guys think about those two approaches ? =)

 

 

 

Sorry for the bad english. I´m from Switzerland ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

I would like to know what you think about Carbbackloading by John Keifer, Josh? And what would your recommendation be for eating? Have you heard of the Rawbrahs? Anything that once had a mother and anything that came from the ground.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Coach Sommer locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please review our Privacy Policy at Privacy Policy before using the forums.