Routine Help

[ajurcisin]

Hey Everyone,

I read Building the Gymnastics Body and am having trouble making a routine. I understand testing for my max in FSP's and FBE's. I also understand that I want to do the FSP's before the FBE's. I'm having the trouble with putting an exact routine together. I was wondering if anyone could help me out.

Thanks for your time.

[Rik de Kort]

This should help:

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/3/th ... -training/

[Paradox]

You can always structure your routine by using Coach Sommer's WOD's. Here's what I do. The meat of the program is Coach Sommer's WOD.

1. Warm up

2. FSP steady state holds

3. Daily WOD

4. Pre-habilitation (see Ido's scapular routine and Slizzardman's shoulder routine on youtube for beginning help)

5. Passive Stretching

The total time can be anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours, depending on if you can complete the WOD (sometimes, I cannot because of occasional incorrect scaling for my abilities or fatigue) or if you don't want to stretch.

[ajurcisin]

Thanks for the help,

What do you do when you can't complete the WOD? Do you improvise?

[Vincent Stoyas]

Thanks for the help,

What do you do when you can't complete the WOD? Do you improvise?

You can post on the WOD forum for help with scaling if you need it.

Any specific examples of one you would like help with?

[ajurcisin]

No I'm not looking for anything in specific regarding the scaling.

I'm just having trouble putting a routine together. I see that some sample routines have you doing some static holds for only a total of 60s which I feel wouldn't be enough, yet I know nothing about gymnastics. I just want to know how long do workouts usually take? Because it seems to me that some of these routines you could go through in about 30 minutes.

[Vincent Stoyas]

No I'm not looking for anything in specific regarding the scaling.

I'm just having trouble putting a routine together. I see that some sample routines have you doing some static holds for only a total of 60s which I feel wouldn't be enough, yet I know nothing about gymnastics. I just want to know how long do workouts usually take? Because it seems to me that some of these routines you could go through in about 30 minutes.

Routines on average take me about an hour. Although I could probably squeeze them down to 30 minutes if I had to.

First 5-10 minutes = getting body warm - jump rope or jumping jacks whatever.

next 10-15 minutes = joint rotations/band work

next 10 minutes = skill work

then I do my prereqs which as of right now takes about 10 minutes.

another 30 minutes for WOD.

That's about an hour or more for me.

I'll let more experienced comemnt if they like, but 60s of work is plenty for statics and you'll realize that as you start to perform them. Essentially, they're short because your tendons take much longer to adapt than your muscles. it's very easy to get injured in gymnastics and I'm sure many here can tell you stories about how they disregard certain principles.

Think of it this way too, you're holding, say a Tuck Planche for holds of 6 seconds. 6 seconds of work is very strenuous and is very much strength work. After you do 3-4 more of those, that's like do 3-4 actual sets of an exercise. It's A LOT of work. Slow and steady, don't push too hard.

[ajurcisin]

No I'm not looking for anything in specific regarding the scaling.

I'm just having trouble putting a routine together. I see that some sample routines have you doing some static holds for only a total of 60s which I feel wouldn't be enough, yet I know nothing about gymnastics. I just want to know how long do workouts usually take? Because it seems to me that some of these routines you could go through in about 30 minutes.

Routines on average take me about an hour. Although I could probably squeeze them down to 30 minutes if I had to.

First 5-10 minutes = getting body warm - jump rope or jumping jacks whatever.

next 10-15 minutes = joint rotations/band work

next 10 minutes = skill work

then I do my prereqs which as of right now takes about 10 minutes.

another 30 minutes for WOD.

That's about an hour or more for me.

I'll let more experienced comemnt if they like, but 60s of work is plenty for statics and you'll realize that as you start to perform them. Essentially, they're short because your tendons take much longer to adapt than your muscles. it's very easy to get injured in gymnastics and I'm sure many here can tell you stories about how they disregard certain principles.

Think of it this way too, you're holding, say a Tuck Planche for holds of 6 seconds. 6 seconds of work is very strenuous and is very much strength work. After you do 3-4 more of those, that's like do 3-4 actual sets of an exercise. It's A LOT of work. Slow and steady, don't push too hard.

Okay this really helps me a lot. For skill work, what kind of things do you do for that. Also, where can I find the thread that explains the prereqs for me?

Thanks for helping!

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

No I'm not looking for anything in specific regarding the scaling.

I'm just having trouble putting a routine together. I see that some sample routines have you doing some static holds for only a total of 60s which I feel wouldn't be enough, yet I know nothing about gymnastics. I just want to know how long do workouts usually take? Because it seems to me that some of these routines you could go through in about 30 minutes.

Why don't you just get started with a routine & give us your feedback based on your actual experience?

IMHO, that will be an eye opener; you'll also be able to ask more specific and precise questions that will be easier to answer than generic how to...

Start with the 6 prerequisites FSPs scaled for an SSC for 60 sec aggregate.

Then a bit of experimenting with scaling the WOD

And some stretching.

Do that for an easy 2 weeks during which you make note of all the questions that your actual hands on experience is answering for you; then, by all means, come back and share your insights with us.

Fred

[Ian Myers]

Start with the 6 prerequisites FSPs scaled for an SSC for 60 sec aggregate.

Fred

To save the op some time, the 6 pre reqs are plank, reverse plank, arch hold, hollow hold, dead hang from a pullup bar, and i believe pb support. Correct me if im wrong

[ajurcisin]

Start with the 6 prerequisites FSPs scaled for an SSC for 60 sec aggregate.

Fred

To save the op some time, the 6 pre reqs are plank, reverse plank, arch hold, hollow hold, dead hang from a pullup bar, and i believe pb support. Correct me if im wrong

Thanks for this, but how long do i have to do each pre reqs? because those are all too easy for me. Also, op means Old Person right? I'm not too sure, but just saying I'm only 18

[ajurcisin]

A quick browse in the stickies in Getting Started will save you some time and others headaches

Yes I know this is annoying for all of you who already understand this all, but for me its just so much information that I'm having trouble processing it all. Trust me I've read the stickies

For those pre reqs, do i do 3 sets of each if i can't hit 60s for all of them?

[ajurcisin]

Alright, It's starting to make sense. So I have to master 3x60s pre reqs. Is this the only thing I should do for the workout?

Once I get the 3x60s done and just use one set of the pre reqs for a warm up, the I can add in FBE's and the WOD?

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

1 - If you can hold each prereq for 60 seconds with perfect form all the way, you can advance to the first exercise in a series you want to achieve. (the instant your form breaks, is the time you stop the clock!)

2 - If not, plan a 8-12 weeks SSC with the prerequisites.

3 - Check SSC: take half your max time for each exercise & do as many sets as necessary to aggregate 60 seconds hold.

4 - If you can hold 60 sec perfectly with some exercises, but not others, you do 3x30 sec of the perfect ones as part of your SSC while continuing with the others for the 8-12 weeks.

When you can post a 6 min video of you doing the prerequisites perfectly, someone will jump in and help you.

Fred

[ajurcisin]

1 - If you can hold each prereq for 60 seconds with perfect form all the way, you can advance to the first exercise in a series you want to achieve. (the instant your form breaks, is the time you stop the clock!)

2 - If not, plan a 8-12 weeks SSC with the prerequisites.

3 - Check SSC: take half your max time for each exercise & do as many sets as necessary to aggregate 60 seconds hold.

4 - If you can hold 60 sec perfectly with some exercises, but not others, you do 3x30 sec of the perfect ones as part of your SSC while continuing with the others for the 8-12 weeks.

When you can post a 6 min video of you doing the prerequisites perfectly, someone will jump in and help you.

Fred

Alrighty, everyone is being super helpful. I don't want to ask a dumb question, so from what I'm understanding the only thing I should be working on is the perfect pre reqs in 6 minutes right? I should not be doing the WOD or FBE's until I perfect the pre reqs?

[Ian Myers]

Haha op means original poster

But yes you are correct. In fact you can start doing very scaled down wods while still doing the prerequisites

[ajurcisin]

Oops my bad, but alrighty then. Do you think it would be alright if I still did some cardio while training the pre reqs? Is it still too much to train this everyday even if I'm only training the pre reqs and a scaled down WOD?

[Ian Myers]

Its up to you. If you want to do cardio, you can skip the wod, as the most important thing right now is building up to that 3x60 mark

[ajurcisin]

How long does it usually take someone to build up this basic strength?

[Vincent Stoyas]

Alrighty, everyone is being super helpful. I don't want to ask a dumb question, so from what I'm understanding the only thing I should be working on is the perfect pre reqs in 6 minutes right? I should not be doing the WOD or FBE's until I perfect the pre reqs?

You should absolutely be doing the WODs or FBEs alongside the prereqs.

The prereqs should be done until 3x60s and then after that you will ALWAYS be doing 1x60s of each every workout. After you master the 3x60s is when you can start progressing into FL, BL, PL, L sit, but not before.

A tip on the plank, really make sure you keeping a hollow position. Master this hollow position. Gymnastics is highly based upon a hollow, this is foundation.

After you finish the prereqs in your workout is when you will either do FBEs or the WOD. Not both.

As I stated earlier this is what your workout should look like each day.

1 - Warm up.

2 - Band work, joint rotations, mobility

3 - Skill work - optional

4 - Prerequisites

5 - WOD

6 - Stretch

[ajurcisin]

Alrighty, everyone is being super helpful. I don't want to ask a dumb question, so from what I'm understanding the only thing I should be working on is the perfect pre reqs in 6 minutes right? I should not be doing the WOD or FBE's until I perfect the pre reqs?

You should absolutely be doing the WODs or FBEs alongside the prereqs.

The prereqs should be done until 3x60s and then after that you will ALWAYS be doing 1x60s of each every workout. After you master the 3x60s is when you can start progressing into FL, BL, PL, L sit, but not before.

A tip on the plank, really make sure you keeping a hollow position. Master this hollow position. Gymnastics is highly based upon a hollow, this is foundation.

After you finish the prereqs in your workout is when you will either do FBEs or the WOD. Not both.

As I stated earlier this is what your workout should look like each day.

1 - Warm up.

2 - Band work, joint rotations, mobility

3 - Skill work - optional

4 - Prerequisites

5 - WOD

6 - Stretch

This is awesome, I'm pretty sure I completely understand everything now. Also, If lets say I'm doing pull ups for a FBE. Should I make them weighted pull ups so that I can only achieve the 3-5 rep range?

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Alrighty, everyone is being super helpful. I don't want to ask a dumb question, so from what I'm understanding the only thing I should be working on is the perfect pre reqs in 6 minutes right? I should not be doing the WOD or FBE's until I perfect the pre reqs?

You are welcome;although there may be questions with easy to find answers on the forum, there are no dumb questions.

- You might want to add a bit of joint mobilization (joint rotations, etc...) just before your SSC.

- As lgm503 explained, you can do a scaled down WOD after your prereq SSC

- then add a good measure of stretching.

Do this 2, 3, or 4 times a week for 3 weeks and see how that goes, then adjust the stuff around your SSC accordingly.

Alternatively to a scaled down WOD, there is a linear program that you can adapt (Killroy70) and follow for some time while you get acquainted with the WOD scaling down, and/or get your level of strength/confidence to a point you feel comfortable with following the WOD.

As an example, here is what I am doing (I started 5 weeks ago & I do this 3 times a week for 3 weeks, then increased to 4 times, but last week was a bit hard). My plan is to start on the WOD after this 12 weeks cycle.

Joint mobilization (wrists, shoulders, neck, ankles, knees)

SSC prerequisites:

- Dead hang 5x12s (pronated = pull up position; I tried supinated (chin up) and nearly tore my right arm off when I tried to extend it!)

- PB support 3x20s (I do this in a tuck position)

- Inverted Plank 5x12s (this is the hardest for me)

- Plank 3x60s (my max was over 3 min, I stopped counting out of boredom, so this is maintenance)

- Arch holds 3x20s

- Hollow holds 3x20s

Additional holds: also in an SSC

- HeS 3x60s

- Inverted Hang (tucked) 3x20s (started with 5x12s, then got mixed up in the count at some moment... so I keep it 3x20s)

- Side plank (straight arm) 4x15s left arm; 3x20s right arm

- Standing Knee raise hold (knee to shoulder) 3x20s each side.

- Short Bridge (shoulder bridge with arms extended over my head) 3x20s

- Candle hold 3x20s (with forearms pushing on my back)

- Straddle L 5x12s (low tuck at the end of a bench)

- L Sit 10x6sec (tuck partially extended in straddle, on push up handles) --- but the last sets are FUgly!

This takes 50 minutes

I take a 3-5 min break, eat some raisins, and fight my little voices that tell me it is okay to go home, I've already showed up and done good!... :twisted:

FBEs

x Supersets of one push and one pull exercise; each day I vary the exercise, the set/reps, the tempo, and the rest times

At this moment, I am limited to horizontal pushing and negative dips & assisted rows and pull ups.

Stretching

I try to place 1 or 2 min stretching during the rest times of the strength exercises and do:

- Standing pike

- Standing straddle with wrist routine

- Deeper Standing straddle (elbows on the floor)

- Seated pike & seated straddle (pancake)

- butt stretch

This takes another 40 minutes.

By then, I usually call it a day; the little voices win, or I run out of time! but once in a while,I still feel like a bit more and I do:

- Lunge stretches ---> lizard stretch with elbows on floor.

- inverted pike (plow?)

- inverted pike one leg at a time

- Frog

- Butterfly stretch

I do not do leg exercises at this moment because of an Achilles tendonitis.

I also do Martial Arts 3 times a week, and have a 20 min metcon (KB swings) once a week. (but I've eased off that in the last month to make space for gymnastics and heal the Achilles... I'll add this back in as my body tells me.)

I hope that helps you with constructing your own routine and getting started.

Fred

PS: I just read that: After you master the 3x60s is when you can start progressing into FL, BL, PL, L sit, but not before. and I think it is very important - I had missed it in my reading of the prerequisites.

Maybe a mod can amend the post on page 5 of the prereqs thread and highlight it?

[Vincent Stoyas]

This is awesome, I'm pretty sure I completely understand everything now. Also, If lets say I'm doing pull ups for a FBE. Should I make them weighted pull ups so that I can only achieve the 3-5 rep range?

Depends on your goals to be honest. You can either do weighted chin ups or you can move to the next progression laid out in the book. Whichever benefits you the most.

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