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alec_ar

Victorian Progress

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Rik de Kort

A front lever has retracted scapula ('squeezing your shoulderblades together').

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alec_ar

Oh, see so I was just totally wrong. I read somewhere that it was with protracted scapulae, so I've been screwing around with that. Damn. No wonder that felt unnatural.

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Joshua Naterman
Any exercise that involves squeezing your shoulder blade should do, like a barbell row.

This is where people get into trouble. In theory this is true, but only if you are working light enough to use perfect form.

The weighted foot-supported rows should be fine with a vest or book bag, but make sure you are primarily performing the retraction and not focusing so much on the row when it is for prehab. You will always be able to row significantly more weight than you can properly retract with, so as long as that works you are good.

Barbell rows are particularly easy to screw up with, seated cable rows are the single best thing with the foot supported rows being the bodyweight equivalent when performed correctly.

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Coach Sommer
... Ido Portal wrote in a thread some time ago that front lever rows should have scapulae retracted throughout the movement ...

Nonsense.

They should indeed be retracted at the end of the movement; but the scapula should articulate normally from protraction to retraction and back again throughout each repetition.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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alec_ar

I appreciate the response coach! So due to the full scapular involvement in FL rows, would they potentially be a good exercise to help balance out the Victorian leans and planche work etc.?

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Joshua Naterman
I appreciate the response coach! So due to the full scapular involvement in FL rows, would they potentially be a good exercise to help balance out the Victorian leans and planche work etc.?

Yes, as long as you aren't letting the shoulders roll forward during the row! Does that make sense? You want to be pulling back into a strong retraction, making sure the scapulae stick to the ribs the whole time and the shoulders travel straight backwards. Eric Cressey has a good video where he talks about pec minor issues and shows this movement pattern. It is very common, but fairly easy to avoid with a little attention.

The foot supported rows are a great way to warm up because they are easier to perform and help you feel the motion, and then the FL rows are great for more strength work. You can do these with a weight vest too. that actually works out fairly well in my experience once you're easily doing sets of 10-15 reps with proper form. It is very different from extending out to a straddle and I'm not totally sure that it will carry over directly, but as you get more laid out it is much harder to retract the scaps and the movement becomes much more lat dominant. The tucked version is probably the best for trap work and prehab. Don't be afraid of higher reps, you need them just as much as the strength work.

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alec_ar

So i can do full lay front lever rows, but I wouldn't dare try them with a weight vest yet :mrgreen:

I can only do 2-3 good reps of them though and as you pointed out that's probably not the best way to prehab the shoulders, but more strength work. I'll focus on the easier variations with endurance in mind and see how that suits for balancing work. Oh and thank you for the link Nf46!

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alec_ar

Hey guys, it's been a little while but I'm back with a video! And just in time for the summer olympics too. :D

So I've toyed around with ideas like crazy, brainstormed and studied Danny Rodrigues videos out the wazoo, altered the way that I train the Victorian pretty drastically and, most importantly, have worked my A** off, and have made some progress. Here is my Victorian as of now, in honor of all of the men and women competing in the Olympics!

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The photo is of the last set of Victorian leans that I did last night. I think it's about the closest I've ever come to one...

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So my body line is still pretty far from parallel, and I have a pretty sick false grip. I'll reduce these issues as I get stronger and with the Victorian, it's all about the baby steps!

Questions, comments and criticisms welcome,

Keep training and keep dreaming!

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FritsMB Mansvelt Beck
Keep training and keep dreaming!

Like you I am a dreamer. Therefore, I made myself a dream machine (ring pulley system or DM). After looking at your video, I decided to try out a victorian (on my DM) and managed a 5 seconds hold (big surprise). So, now I am in a better position to tell you that you have to keep your hands at-or-below your hips when leaning backwards; in your video your hands start to drift up (or, rather, your hips start to fall below your hands) the moment you lift your feet up; not very effective as a training method in my opinion. With a DM, of course, you only have to keep half your body weight up but even so it is pretty hard to do a victorian. I have no ambition whatsoever to learn to do a victorian, but decided to add this exercise to my DM program, because it looks like a good one to improve my FL. You are way stronger then I am (also way more impatient, if I may say so), so you may be able to train with a DM by pulling yourself from a FL into a victorian. Now doing that for reps would give you some serious strength gains. Try it, you will like it. Good luck. Train smart and keep dreaming.

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alec_ar

Thank you much for your words FritsMB! In the past I have created my own pulley system for the rings but it never worked out well for me...how did you build your DM?

Also, my hips do tend to drop I know, I have to watch that diligently, although I will say that the recording was towards the end of the day and I wasn't at my best, usually my hips are relatively in line--getting my shoulders lower is my primary problem. But that is something that takes time! I do train FL pull to VC with my cross trainers but still require heavy assistance. I love the exercise but it results in quite painful cramps in my rear delts! I would love to try it in a dream machine though!

I'm glad my video inspired you to try a victorian on the DM and congrats on your five second hold!

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FritsMB Mansvelt Beck
In the past I have created my own pulley system for the rings but it never worked out well for me...how did you build your DM?

Here is a short clip of me trying a victorian on my dream machine. I don’t think my right arm is as straight as it should be. My arms are not naturally straight, so it is hard to tell. Anyway, you can see what I mean about how you could use a DM for your victorian training. You can make it harder by hanging more weight on your seat harness.

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I hope you can see it when you freeze the clip, but the DM consists of:

A climbing seat harness.

2 locking carabiners that I attach to the leg loop and waistband on each side.

2 lengths of 2.5 meter static climbing rope (6 mm thick; 750 kg breaking strength).

2 small carabiners attached to the end of each length of rope.

2 climbing pulleys for hauling heavy loads (I used Petzoll pulleys with a breaking strength of 2400 kg).

Each length of the 2.5 m rope is attached to a ring on one end and to a small carabiner on the other end after stringing it through the pulley that is attached to the bar from which I hang my rings (right next to the ring straps, that are left in place). When I use my DM, I can just clip the small carabiner to the locking carabiner on my climbing harness. I alternate training with the DM and my regular ring set up and it seems to work for me. Maybe for you too? Have fun.

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Joshua Slocum

You're correct - the right arm looks bent.

mirroredrain - if your hips keep dropping, it's either a behavioral issue (bad habit) or a core strength issue. Are you capable of holding other strength positions with your hips straight?

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alec_ar

I think it's both habitual and a strength issue. Leaning into a Victorian is really awkward for your core, much More so than a front lever. I can hold back levers, front levers and only about a 2 s planche on the floor. But naturally the Victorian is like 10x a front lever in terms of core strength! I'm thinking about implementing more FL rows into my training regimen to see if that helps...

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alec_ar

So this isn't really a progress video, just something I've been working on. I've been trying to incorporate Front Lever Rows with the Victorian to make for a massive pulling exercise...to be critical of myself--I know its really sloppy and quick but it was at the end of a grueling workout! :D Normally I can hold each part longer and with better body line. Someday I hope to do this unassisted on the rings but right now, this progression is plenty hard for me! The part where you go from the top of the FL row and stretch your arms out to reach the Victorian is the hardest. Makes my triceps feel like they're gonna explode!

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This is just a foot supported version of the same thing. Seems to really hit the entire back in just one exercise:

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alec_ar

Once again, not really an update on my overall progress, I just like the idea of keeping a steady training log here, and encourage others to post their own vids or ideas on my topic too! xD

This was really supposed to be a hardcore rest week but taking time off is hard! Anyway, this is a tucked Victorian with the assistance of the straps. I think my progress on the manna really helps here.

d5NqhENVOlc

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alec_ar

Quick final update: this topic can stay open for anyone to contribute thoughts and ideas on the Victorian. For anyone interested in my personal progress updates on the Victorian with vids and other exercises, I am no longer posting updates for that here. You can follow my training log under the workout logs section entitled ''Mirroredrain's Training Log". Thanks everybody!

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alec_ar

post-51703-13531537407816_thumb.jpg

Yuri Van Gelder

Thoughts?

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Joshua Naterman

Where did that picture come from? Couldn't find it on google.

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FREDERIC DUPONT

Very nice vids mirroredrain...

Yet, I was holding my breath uncomfortably with images of that flower pot falling on your head, you getting hung by the neck with the blue rope, or lose balance, crash and break your cervical spine on the green swing behind you! :shock: :?

It is your life, but maybe you could consider spending 10 min removing the hazards, cleaning up the weeds (so you are sure no one forgot or lost a sharp tool underneath), and checking that tree branch... (it could be secured and braced)

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Joshua Naterman
Where did that picture come from? Couldn't find it on google.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yvangelder/page6/

Use Reverse Image Search, man.

Reverse what?

This is how I know I'm getting old :)

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Rik de Kort

If you go to google images, you can click the small camera in the search box. Then you can enter the URL of a picture you want to reverse image search. Google then tries to find pics that look like it.

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Joshua Naterman

That is freaking awesome!

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Quick Start Test Smith

Dammit! I had that idea 6 months ago. I was going to sell it to Google for a million bucks. :cry: :P

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