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Back lever pullups ?


George Navarro
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George Navarro

1st time posting here :mrgreen: I couldn't find anything on this, so I figured I would ask. Is doing pull ups from a back lever position or from the bottom of a German hang safe on the joints ? I've seen a number of people doing them like Hannibal for King and a pretty good handbalancer. So I wanted to know, is this a good exercise or should I just leave it be ?

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  • 2 weeks later...
Philip Chubb

If you have to ask, there's a good chance you're not ready for it yet. It will be there for you eventually but make sure you get into it very gradually.

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and jsut for clarification hannibal king does not do a back lever pull up. He does this weird bent over thing and pulls up like that. It seems to work for him, i would not recommend it unless you can do some of the more advanced movments in the book. But even if you can do it like he does, its silly. Because even when he does what he calls a superman (its actually a planche) its not very good because his back is very arched and his elbows stay bent. Its a good example of form being superior. Although he looks muscualr and he can do cool things, i don't respect what he can do anymore especially after getting into this forum and realizing how bad his form is. I would highly recommend just sticking to the workouts in the BTBG book.

The hanbalancer you also saw do a pull up in a back lever position; who is he? i have never really seen this move done correctly

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Joshua Naterman
1st time posting here :mrgreen: I couldn't find anything on this, so I figured I would ask. Is doing pull ups from a back lever position or from the bottom of a German hang safe on the joints ? I've seen a number of people doing them like Hannibal for King and a pretty good handbalancer. So I wanted to know, is this a good exercise or should I just leave it be ?

I can do what Hannibal was doing and it isn't very hard. It just looks cool.

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George Navarro
I think this may be the handbalancer you were talking about :

It was actually young Willy, right here, but Entcho's pretty beast. PPb2r42eVQ

He does it @ around a minute in. Hope nobody really saw this video, then I would probably be doin a good thing by getting this guy a few more views and bein able to share sumthin cool :wink:

I only recently saw those german hang pull ups being done and I just had to ask since I've seen a few front lever pull ups but nothing like a BL or germang hang version. But during the time it took everyone to respond I figured I would rather focus on some other movements. No worries ! :mrgreen:

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I've always wanted to know what others think about these. They don't seem so common in this community and they aren't even in the BTGB book. I attempted to do these before, but could not do it successfully even in adv tuck. They are harder than front lever rows.

Has anyone here did these in full lay before? It also seems like the type of grip (underhand/overhand) would change the movement somewhat differently.

Does anyone also know if doing these in underhand grip would stress more biceps than underhand grip front lever rows (I never tried underhand FL rows)?

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WitnessTheFitness

Willy is pretty inhuman. When I was first beginning bodyweight training I used to watch that video before my workouts to pump me up :D Can't imagine full backlever pullups, but since there are beasts out there pulling off victorians and backlever to maltese, no doubt there are gymnasts who can do it. Has anyone here attempted training for it? I used to do what Willy does at the 1 min mark, but it would always produce a really weird burning/straining/tearing sensation in my ligaments so I stopped trying to progress.

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Yes there are people who can do pull-ups in full lay back lever since there are people who can do full pelicans (usually are gymnasts). I'm pretty sure planche push-ups are harder than back lever pull-ups.

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Joshua Naterman
I've always wanted to know what others think about these. They don't seem so common in this community and they aren't even in the BTGB book. I attempted to do these before, but could not do it successfully even in adv tuck. They are harder than front lever rows.

Has anyone here did these in full lay before? It also seems like the type of grip (underhand/overhand) would change the movement somewhat differently.

Does anyone also know if doing these in underhand grip would stress more biceps than underhand grip front lever rows (I never tried underhand FL rows)?

What? I did these with absolutely no training. You're talking about at a minute, right? Those are a joke. I never tried full lay because it never occurred to me. Considering that I can't do full lay BL anymore I can't try it, but tuck and flat tuck are still not an issue. I... don't understand the fascination with this nonsense movement. It makes people's eyes pop because they have no idea how easy it is compared to many other things.

These are absolutely not harder than FL rows. You just need strong forearms, that's pretty much it. If you have brachioradialis and brachialis strength, these are nothing.

That is my opinion. I have a few friends at GSU that thought they looked impossible when I did them. I told them the same thing, and showed them how to do it, and they could all do at least 2. These aren't superhuman guys, they were nowhere near as strong as I was. They just did reverse curls and pull ups fairly regularly. Nothing more.

Edit: I suppose deadlifting and doing most of my pulls with fingers only has helped a lot too. I always forget how much of a difference that makes, because that's just how I do things.

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Rik de Kort

Did my research, it's not something you want to do a whole lot.

The easiest way to think of it is to compare it with an upright row. It's basically an upright row behind the back. This means that you use internal rotation to assist in abducting the shoulders, which is bad because during abduction, you're supposed to rotate the humerus externally (so the opposite way) to make sure the greater tubercle (part of your humerus, specifically the head) doesn't impact the acromion. So if you perform this movement, your greater tubercle may bump into the acromion. This leads to the tissues between those two structures getting compressed, which means you can get impingement, which is a very bad thing.

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Joshua Naterman
Did my research, it's not something you want to do a whole lot.

The easiest way to think of it is to compare it with an upright row. It's basically an upright row behind the back. This means that you use internal rotation to assist in abducting the shoulders, which is bad because during abduction, you're supposed to rotate the humerus externally (so the opposite way) to make sure the greater tubercle (part of your humerus, specifically the head) doesn't impact the acromion. So if you perform this movement, your greater tubercle may bump into the acromion. This leads to the tissues between those two structures getting compressed, which means you can get impingement, which is a very bad thing.

Interesting, I never looked into any of that. It just didn't seem to be a movement that had anything at all to do with anything else, and it felt ridiculously easy, so I never bothered with it. The way I see it, if I didn't even have to train for it specifically to be able to do it in my sleep, why should I train it specifically? I am clearly doing whatever it is that contributes to this already.

Do be fair though, that assessment depends rather heavily on what you are doing with your scaps and how curved your back is. Similar things can be said about overhead lifting when your thoracic extension is limited, but that is a conditional statement that is either true or false based on the position of the acromion as a result of movement (or lack thereof) of other structures.

I don't think I have ever used the word "of" in such rapid succession before! :)

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Rik de Kort

Interesting, I never looked into any of that. It just didn't seem to be a movement that had anything at all to do with anything else, and it felt ridiculously easy, so I never bothered with it. The way I see it, if I didn't even have to train for it specifically to be able to do it in my sleep, why should I train it specifically? I am clearly doing whatever it is that contributes to this already.

Yeah, unless you want to get there more quickly.

Do be fair though, that assessment depends rather heavily on what you are doing with your scaps and how curved your back is. Similar things can be said about overhead lifting when your thoracic extension is limited, but that is a conditional statement that is either true or false based on the position of the acromion as a result of movement (or lack thereof) of other structures.

I don't think I have ever used the word "of" in such rapid succession before! :)

Yeah, but as most people don't have someone with enough expertise to watch and correct, I think it's best to stay away from it in regular training.

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Joshua Naterman

Interesting, I never looked into any of that. It just didn't seem to be a movement that had anything at all to do with anything else, and it felt ridiculously easy, so I never bothered with it. The way I see it, if I didn't even have to train for it specifically to be able to do it in my sleep, why should I train it specifically? I am clearly doing whatever it is that contributes to this already.

Yeah, unless you want to get there more quickly.

Do be fair though, that assessment depends rather heavily on what you are doing with your scaps and how curved your back is. Similar things can be said about overhead lifting when your thoracic extension is limited, but that is a conditional statement that is either true or false based on the position of the acromion as a result of movement (or lack thereof) of other structures.

I don't think I have ever used the word "of" in such rapid succession before! :)

Yeah, but as most people don't have someone with enough expertise to watch and correct, I think it's best to stay away from it in regular training.

Absolutely. There is just honestly no carryover to much of anything else, I don't know why anyone would want to focus on these.

I know, I know... it looks cool :P Hopefully people read your post about the acromion.

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I've always wanted to know what others think about these. They don't seem so common in this community and they aren't even in the BTGB book. I attempted to do these before, but could not do it successfully even in adv tuck. They are harder than front lever rows.

Has anyone here did these in full lay before? It also seems like the type of grip (underhand/overhand) would change the movement somewhat differently.

Does anyone also know if doing these in underhand grip would stress more biceps than underhand grip front lever rows (I never tried underhand FL rows)?

What? I did these with absolutely no training. You're talking about at a minute, right? Those are a joke. I never tried full lay because it never occurred to me. Considering that I can't do full lay BL anymore I can't try it, but tuck and flat tuck are still not an issue. I... don't understand the fascination with this nonsense movement. It makes people's eyes pop because they have no idea how easy it is compared to many other things.

These are absolutely not harder than FL rows. You just need strong forearms, that's pretty much it. If you have brachioradialis and brachialis strength, these are nothing.

That is my opinion. I have a few friends at GSU that thought they looked impossible when I did them. I told them the same thing, and showed them how to do it, and they could all do at least 2. These aren't superhuman guys, they were nowhere near as strong as I was. They just did reverse curls and pull ups fairly regularly. Nothing more.

Edit: I suppose deadlifting and doing most of my pulls with fingers only has helped a lot too. I always forget how much of a difference that makes, because that's just how I do things.

I take that back, I just tried these in the gym today and can could easily do them in tuck position. I was probably doing these wrong in the past and I was actually much stronger back then than now. I could only do these with the palms facing up and could barely get any ROM with the palms facing down version.

The difference in grip seems to change the whole movement pretty drastically. With the 'palms facing up' one, your elbows tend to flare out to the sides and the 'palms facing down' one doesn't and is significantly harder and seems to take more biceps strength. I think you should try these again with the palms facing down. You would also have to do these (with the palms facing down of course) if you want full pelicans.

Did my research, it's not something you want to do a whole lot.

The easiest way to think of it is to compare it with an upright row. It's basically an upright row behind the back. This means that you use internal rotation to assist in abducting the shoulders, which is bad because during abduction, you're supposed to rotate the humerus externally (so the opposite way) to make sure the greater tubercle (part of your humerus, specifically the head) doesn't impact the acromion. So if you perform this movement, your greater tubercle may bump into the acromion. This leads to the tissues between those two structures getting compressed, which means you can get impingement, which is a very bad thing.

Do you have the link to the source, I would like to read more about it. I thought your shoulders externally rotate in upright rows. External rotation is rolling the shoulders backward right?

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Rik de Kort

Do you have the link to the source, I would like to read more about it. I thought your shoulders externally rotate in upright rows. External rotation is rolling the shoulders backward right?

Steven Low, Overcoming Gravity, pg. 177. (Section on impingement) There isn't really a whole lot more in there.

This is external rotation:

184_fig1.gif

Externally rotating your shoulders would bring the barbell forward and you would end up performing a cuban press of sorts if I'm not mistaken (barbell training isn't my forte).

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Joshua Naterman

Guys: If you internally rotate on a concentric motion, you have to externally rotate the same amount on the eccentric in order to do back to back reps.

Don't forget that when there is an opposite movement you also have opposite rotation.

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was the video referring to behind the back pulls? theyre pretty easy because even i can do them and id think im relatively weak to many people on this forum. i was expecting to see backlever pullup into support position to be honest haha

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Do you have the link to the source, I would like to read more about it. I thought your shoulders externally rotate in upright rows. External rotation is rolling the shoulders backward right?

Steven Low, Overcoming Gravity, pg. 177. (Section on impingement) There isn't really a whole lot more in there.

This is external rotation:

184_fig1.gif

Externally rotating your shoulders would bring the barbell forward and you would end up performing a cuban press of sorts if I'm not mistaken (barbell training isn't my forte).

Thanks! There is external rotation in upright rows for the second part of the exercise when you lift the bar up towards your face. I don't know if you start out with internal rotation though.

Guys: If you internally rotate on a concentric motion, you have to externally rotate the same amount on the eccentric in order to do back to back reps.

Don't forget that when there is an opposite movement you also have opposite rotation.

Yes, but doesn't it require no effort from the relevant muscles since gravity brings you down in the eccentric?

was the video referring to behind the back pulls? theyre pretty easy because even i can do them and id think im relatively weak to many people on this forum. i was expecting to see backlever pullup into support position to be honest haha

Do you mean Ians (back lever curl to korean dip) because if you do then that isn't a back lever pull-up. Can you do them in full lay and pull-up with palms facing down like the handbalancer Entcho, but with full ROM?

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I just took a look at upright rows again from google and yes your right there is no external rotation in that movement. I thought of a different movement when I thought of upright rows. I think back lever pull-ups with the palms facing down won't give you impingement since they don't look like upright rows unlike the ones with the palms facing up like what Hannibal does.

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I'm not sure if this is what you were talking about, but you might want to check out my topic under ring strength called "new rings muscle up". It's somewhere on the first page. I have always been very interested in back lever curls, and sort of developed an idea for a german hang curl into a muscle up of sorts. What my movement basically is is an ian, if you're familiar with those, they are in the BtGB book, but without the core activation. It's basically an ian with a german hang instead of a back lever, which makes it easier. :wink: Being easier, it's still considerably harder than the behind-the-back pull up things shown in the video, and would be really fun to achieve. Once again, don't know if this really applies, I just noticed your topic and it got me excited.

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There are 2 kinds of back lever pull-ups. The only difference between the two is the type of grip, the one with palms facing down is harder and the arms do not flare out to the sides, and the one with palms facing up is easier and with arms flaring out to the sides which sort of resembles a upright row behind the back and is the one shown in the video. These are not back lever curls, back lever curls are multiplanar and the back lever pull-ups are with the body held at the back lever position throughout the whole movement.

Speaking of back lever curls and your german hang pull-up/curl, how much biceps strength are required for either of them? I never tried the back lever curls before and I could not do a german hang pull-up from a bar.

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