Thinking of Adding Back Squats

[Philip Chubb]

I am thinking of adding back squats because I want stronger legs and to jump higher and run faster. I think the extra muscle would also be a bit healthy for me to add. I was wondering though if low rep work here (no more than 3 in a set) would add a lot of hypertrophy that would make upperbody skills harder. I hope to get a one arm press and a one arm planche one day so I am a little cautious of adding too much leg work. But adding in squats seems exciting. Any idea on how much more difficult it is when you add a few inches to your legs?

[Blairbob]

A lot, no. More than some, yes.

If you are that concerned, just deadlift or hex bar deadlift if you want it to be more squat-like. Low rep-range 1-3. Even with low reps, hypertrophy is going to happen somewhat unless you do very low volume as well.

Squats are going to have more effect on hypertrophy than DL, because they start off with an eccentric and finish with a concentric.

For running and jumping higher, this just requires a fair amount of running and jumping. Hamstring and glute work helps such as Glute-Ham Raises and Deadlift (and DL variations).

You can balance out lower body mass somewhat with upper body mass unless of course you gain a lot in the PosteriorChain (Hips) as well as back.

[Philip Chubb]

Thanks Blairbob. I wish I had a hex bar for that reason. I was thinking of setting the pins low and getting under them to squat them up and not have to do the eccentric. It's also nice to know it won't cause too big of a problem.

[Blairbob]

Well, instead of hex bar DL, you can do DB DL but loading is different because of the DB (10lb jumps and grip strength becomes a factor or whether to go all the way down to the floor).

You can focus on the eccentric portion of the DL if you care to or just lower it down safely and quickly and who cares.

Hex bars are really expensive.

I like gymnasts using them since I don't have to worry about squat racks. I don't have to worry about back problems and young backs. Form is easier. So it's sort of good enough.

With DB DL, I still have to worry about dropped DB and toes. Not an issue with the DL.

I guess you could also DL with a different setup like a snatch DL or clean DL with the hips way lower. That requires more ROM in the quads then.

[Philip Chubb]

You think deadlifting would be better in general? I was thinking squats because I can already pull a decent deadlift just from the gymnastics training. And it was with bad form before. I figured after a while I'll still get some of the side gains.

Speaking of which, I used to occasionally deadlift from a platform so the bar was right over my toes. Was nice.

[Blairbob]

I think DL is fine if you are really worried about too much hypertrophy in your legs and body. SQ build a lot of muscle mass in everything. Which is great, unless you don't want to be bulky. It will build bulk in everything. Upper back and arms to an extent (depending on SQ style) besides spinal erectors and everything in the back and hips.

Some of your body type is predetermined anyways. If that's the case, there isn't much you can fight against that. Depends on your genetics. Even when I was 125lbs, I had pretty big quads for my small size (but that was probably because a lot of BW squatting in MA).

However, DL are not equal to Squats. It's mainly a concentric exercise unless you start in a hang such as a straight, stiff, or Romanian DL.

No matter what lower body work you are doing will matter if you end up doing a lot of volume. You could be doing low reps, but if it's still a lot of volume your legs are going to grow.

If you still want to run or jump well, look into minimalist running or jumping programs which basically use a lot of Max Effort.

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/the-holy-grail-in-speed-training/default.aspx If you go to Barry Ross's BearPowered site there should be some programming articles that focused a lot of ME training for sprinting. Jumping would be a bit different as you would look into Shock Training Method or Plyometrics.

Deficit DL is nice, but if you start with your hips high, it's more about glutes/ham/lower back than quads. Snatch/Clean DL with low hips might be more appropriate since it used more ROM for the quads off the floor.

Or you could just do SLS+DL+GluteHam work.

[Philip Chubb]

I understand now. Thanks again Blairbob. I have never had to deal with anyone who didn't want to gain mass. Except myself. Which oddly sort of stumped me. Deadlifts it is then. Need to find an olympic bumper platform.

[irongymnast]

I understand now. Thanks again Blairbob. I have never had to deal with anyone who didn't want to gain mass. Except myself. Which oddly sort of stumped me.

You're not alone!

[Philip Chubb]

I understand now. Thanks again Blairbob. I have never had to deal with anyone who didn't want to gain mass. Except myself. Which oddly sort of stumped me.

You're not alone!

Are you experiencing the same paranoia, my friend? We need to start a support group. "Hi, my name is Philip. I want a maltese and a 5 (will settle for 3.5 to 4) foot vertical."

[Joshua Naterman]

You are going to want to focus at least 50/50 on front squats vs back squats for best results.

If you want to get the strongest you can without size, you want low reps + high weight + fast movement. That last part is important. You WILL be using stretch reflex at the bottom of the squat and exploding up. It is important to progress slowly with weight using this method, more small jumps instead of fewer big jumps gives your connective tissue and the musculotendinous junction a chance to strengthen without a giant increase in forces. It should go without saying that form should always be perfect, and your eccentric will be as fast as you can safely control. The main point with progression is to keep perfect form and identical speed or to have a slow increase in speed.

The reason for this is that you will be recruiting faster motor units, which there are fewer of. They are capable of greater power output (not to necessarily be confused with sustained force production, this is very phasic) and so you are literally training a smaller portion of your tissues which will lead to less growth. This is a large part of why bodybuilders focus on slower training for a lot of their work, and the top guys have a mix of fast and slow work. You are quite literally predominately working different parts of the muscle.

The front squat will be the best compliment to the deadlifts, and if there were only two exercises I would go with those two. The deadlifts will substantially increase your sprint start power, standing broad jump, and leg pull during a sprint. The front squats will enhance the sprinting through much greater focus on the quads, and for the same reason will help standing vertical jump substantially.

Add slowly increasing intensity to single leg straight leg AND bent leg calf bounces and you will essentially have a lower body power program that will keep your legs small and increase strength and power (more importantly) immensely.

Keep in mind that this does not take stabilization muscles into account. For that, I will recommend a professional or ghetto bosu ball and SLS performed slowly. I just find that they feel better on the bosu ball, you don't need it. Single leg deadlifts are best on the floor, at least so far in my experience and should also be performed. You don't need to focus on these too much, but a single non-fatiguing set as warm up for your bigger lifts is a good idea, and so is once or twice weekly training on these muscles to fatigue. They are slow twitch in nature and as such are going to respond to slower movement rates and training to momentary positive failure. Only hit failure once per workout per exercise for good results without messing up your power work.

[Philip Chubb]

Thanks Slizzardman! That makes a lot of sense. I am learning about tempo in PICP and shortening it to keep hypertrophy from happening and using the stretch reflex is kind of a duh moment. Not sure why I didn't think of that. I already do the stiff leg bounces and I have a slack line for the stability. Thanks a lot. I have a little less fear now. And any extra mass I put on means I can feel less guilty about an extra sweet potato...mmmm

[Philip Chubb]

I am alternating front squats with back squats and using high speed, high rest, low volume and high (as safely possible) weight. I am thinking of using cluster training to add 15 seconds between each rep to keep reps as fast as possible and I only do this particular workout once a week.

I remember Josh saying you can do a heavy weighted workout once every 10 days and make gains. I hope that still applies. Anyone ever tried a once a week schedule?

[Joshua Naterman]

I am alternating front squats with back squats and using high speed, high rest, low volume and high (as safely possible) weight. I am thinking of using cluster training to add 15 seconds between each rep to keep reps as fast as possible and I only do this particular workout once a week.

I remember Josh saying you can do a heavy weighted workout once every 10 days and make gains. I hope that still applies. Anyone ever tried a once a week schedule?

You can do something like that for a while, but you will have to go to full fatigue and you will be exhausted for at least 24 hours. It's not the ideal way to go.

Power work is at its best 2-3x per week. Just not to failure, only to the first drop in power. That usually means max power singles or doubles for 4-6 sets with 3-5 minutes of active rest (keep moving, just walk around and sip your water or protein shake or whatever, swing your arms a little, etc) between sets.

[Nic Branson]

I've used a modified westside in the past for a couple people with one day of explosive work under the bar and the one day of un-weighted plyo work. Every 10 days for explosive work is really to spaced out for most people.

[Philip Chubb]

Thank you both Nic and Joshua! I am thinking I will do 2 days a week then. I just read a Poliquin article that said every 5 days is good for getting to 2x bodyweight. Back to training a bit everyday!

[Joshua Naterman]

Thank you both Nic and Joshua! I am thinking I will do 2 days a week then. I just read a Poliquin article that said every 5 days is good for getting to 2x bodyweight. Back to training a bit everyday!

There are many ways to 2x BW, do what you think will work best and evaluate your progress once every 6-8 weeks. If you don't think it is what it should be, ask us here and we can help you modify as necessary.

The first step is to implement something and let your body do its thing for 6-8 weeks.

[Philip Chubb]

Thank you both Nic and Joshua! I am thinking I will do 2 days a week then. I just read a Poliquin article that said every 5 days is good for getting to 2x bodyweight. Back to training a bit everyday!

There are many ways to 2x BW, do what you think will work best and evaluate your progress once every 6-8 weeks. If you don't think it is what it should be, ask us here and we can help you modify as necessary.

The first step is to implement something and let your body do its thing for 6-8 weeks.

Thank you. I am actually already over halfway there. It shouldn't take too long at all! Especially now, that I will do it twice a week. I added 100 lbs to my power cleans fairly fast and this is showing a lot of improvement too. Thank you again!