Front lever, is it bad for shoulders/shoulder impingement?

[Guest xani]

I started training for front lever and dormant shoulder impingement had woken up.... been having pain around the ends of the clavicle, where it meets the shoulders and in general under the lower part of the clavicle, since I started to do front lever progressions (I'm not nearly there yet). Is front lever bad/damaging for shoulders? I think that training for back lever doesn't cause me problems... I can't really just lay off front lever work, as I'm taking a class and this is required. I'm doing aerial straps, not rings, actually, but this is very similar, straps would be the closest to the rings of all other apparatus. Trainer in class doesn't bother much, he just watches.... don't want to get hurt.

[Blairbob]

Perhaps do a bit more of a warmup before the straps? Not sure if you're doing that. Try to scale back on some of the intensity.

[Nic Scheelings]

Perhaps your shoulders are rolling too far forward when doing front levers and this causing the impingement? Remember you are trying to retract the shoulder blades when performing a front lever.

[Guest xani]

This makes sense... just yesterday, a teacher commented on my shoulders rolling too much forward when I was hanging in inversion, I guess that's what's happening during front lever progression.... And yes probably not doing enough of a warm up, I often get away with just shoulder warm up, not whole body warm up--probably end up with not enough blood circulation overall.

[Joshua Naterman]

Make sure to do a lot of training with your traps as far as keeping them retracted and always working on retraction strength as well as stability while the arms are moving. This is one of the real secrets to healthy shoulders and excellent strength.

[Guest xani]

I guess I'll be doing dumbell shrugs with retracted shoulders now. I've been told my shoulders are rolling down and forward even when I'm walking around, and the teacher thought it was a rotator cuff issue and told me to do outward cable rotations... Since I only practice front meat hooks (when body folds toward stomach), this probably trains inward rotation heavily, so I don't get balanced on outward rotation. In that one class, aerial straps, I was surprised how the instructor doesn't recommend any conditioning work at all--none, though this is extremely heavy on shoulders what they're doing.... no rotator cuff work was recommended at all, just gradual progressions to everything, may be with a spotter....I'm just guessing that floor-based conditioning is really good here, like cable pulls to help with front lever and make it more gradual.

[Joshua Naterman]

That is weird, I would have thought they would be on top of the shoulder girdle stuff.

Are you familiar with the "YTIW" series of shoulder exercises? Basically, you have really light dumbbells and you lift them in specific ways. To give you an idea of what light is, I am currently using 5 lbs. I moved up from 3 lbs today and the 2 lb jump is almost too much for me to really maintain perfect form.

If you search youtube for YTIW or YTIL you should find what I am talking about, but I have found that some variants I have made up are really working well for me. Traditionally these are done prone, but I am finding that doing them standing, leaning forward at a few different angles, and being on an inclined bench all have different effects and allow me to target my traps slightly differently.

The most important part of all this stuff is to perform each rep independently. At the beginning of each rep, you retract the shoulder blades and hold them tight, THEN you perform the lift while holding the scaps in position, and THEN you want to release them from the position into whatever is their relaxed position for you. The second rep will start with re-setting the scapulae in the retracted position and repeating the motion. Be sure to relax and re-set the scaps each rep. This is WAAAAAAY more effective than trying to keep them retracted for all the reps. Do your best to maintain retraction throughout the arm motion, both concentric and eccentric. I still have trouble with the eccentrics sometimes, especially when I get a little tired.

One thing that is great about the GB program is that it is very insistent on developing the most basic parts of your structure before moving on to strength work, and maintaining that structural integrity throughout. As I get older I am definitely finding that this is one of the keys to super strength... the other is microloading. Sand is pretty much perfect for this. A gallon ziplock bag with the air pushed out, old bags or old purses are all great things to put sand in and use as weights. In my opinion it is totally worth buying two cheapo identical purses or small-ish bags to use as your sandbags, because 50 lbs of sand costs 4 bucks and you can use dirt for free if you don't want to buy sand. Just use a small measuring cup or a tablespoon or something and add 1-3 tablespoons per workout, always adding just enough to make the weight feel slightly different (as opposed to actually difficult). Stick with the same weight until you are sure that it is just too easy and then start adding the sand or dirt again.

That's my suggestion for how to make truly micro-loadable weights that you can use on a daily basis for your shoulder rehab and prehab. I made mine today, finally. I can't make another big jump like 3 -> 5 lbs, it's too much. This way I can get as strong as I want with very little perceived effort and I avoid altering the movement by adding too much extra weight at one time.

[Nic Branson]

My own two cents. I don't see the front lever as being much of an issue for an impingement as long as your shoulders are not rounding or rolling inward. This was mentioned above. Does it hurt during or afterwards? I found working with bands for shoulder mobility really helped me.

[Cole Dano]

Based on the posts about dislocates etc. there may be some other issues going on and the FL is being blamed.

[Joshua Naterman]

Based on the posts about dislocates etc. there may be some other issues going on and the FL is being blamed.

In Xani's log she said that her shoulders seem to roll forward and down in daily life activities and that her instructors haven't mentioned anything about shoulder girdle muscle balancing to her, so most likely the pain during FL is just a symptom of dysfunctional movement and to some extent the unbalanced shoulder girdle. Part of this may have come from her spending a large portion of training on the meathook, which forces the protraction and downward position she described. Of course, so does lots of typing so depending on what she does for work it may have been quite a lot of things contributing to the position.

I put a post in her log describing what I am doing and what to look for on youtube, so hopefully between that stuff and working on holding the retraction during FL she will start feeling better soon.

[Ian Legrow]

Slizz. I have heard this said more then twice now. What does ON the Meathook mean? i can't imagine she is literally doing front levers from meat hooks in a meat locker hahaha

-Ian

[Joshua Naterman]

Nah, that would be awesome though! Very "Rocky," you know?

Meat hook is kind of like a one arm front lever when you are laying on your side, at first with the body curled tightly around the support arm and as you get stronger it gets more extended just like FL does. A better description will have to come from our circus members, I may even have some of this wrong.

Regardless, you can probably imagine how much a nearly exclusive focus on such a position would negatively impact shoulder health

[Ian Legrow]

Yes I think my shoulder cried and retreated after i read that.

Hanging from meat hooks may be very "rocky" but if you wanna be "chuck norris" do a front lever without using your arms!! HAHAHA

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes I think my shoulder cried and retreated after i read that.

Hanging from meat hooks may be very "rocky" but if you wanna be "chuck norris" do a front lever without using your arms!! HAHAHA

HAHAHA!!! Nice!

[jl5555]

....Meathook is kind of like a one arm front lever when you are laying on your side, at first with the body curled tightly around the support arm and as you get stronger it gets more extended just like FL does....

...you can probably imagine how much a nearly exclusive focus on such a position would negatively impact shoulder health

Ah, meathooks. Hmm. If you really want to hear your ribs crack, just do a meathook for the first time! They are just as Slizz has described. Doing one does put a bit of stress on the engaged shoulder but, as I found out, also on the rib cage as there is quite a bit of compression. I found this out during a workout session with Yuri who, naturally, does these as if eating a bowl of cheerios. Easily. Not so much if you don't do them often. If you want to try them start with windshield wipers and then progress further and further...

[Nic Branson]

I tried doing meathooks today for kicks. Wow, what a movement, felt completely different then anything done yet. I liked it, will have to add them in from time to time. As for watching the video where the arm was behind the back and not in front.....my shoulder started hurting watching that part.