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Question on hypertrophy


Bryce Warren
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Bryce Warren

I just need to know how to eat enough for hypertrophy, I have a hard enough time reaching my maintenance level with eating clean. I don't have the biggest budget so I need to know some stuff I can eat consistently to gain mass while keeping the body fat down. Read quite a bit and saw some people saying it isn't good to repeat the foods day after day, but I find it hard to not do that while gaining mass. I don't have the time or money to keep changing up the meats, I eat a lot of chicken, veggies, and fruits right now, 1 shake per day, and am just starting creatine again.

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I just need to know how to eat enough for hypertrophy, I have a hard enough time reaching my maintenance level with eating clean. I don't have the biggest budget so I need to know some stuff I can eat consistently to gain mass while keeping the body fat down. Read quite a bit and saw some people saying it isn't good to repeat the foods day after day, but I find it hard to not do that while gaining mass. I don't have the time or money to keep changing up the meats, I eat a lot of chicken, veggies, and fruits right now, 1 shake per day, and am just starting creatine again.

Use the milk.

Okay I know it's total... crap, but it has calories, it has protein, it has lactose, perfect combo.

Now buying some organic or bio (IDK?) milk would take care of the estrogen issue, but I think you can't get more estrogen inside you than you already create, it's not that hot IMO. Im currently out of whey so I use glucose + milk combo, I drink about 3 liters of milk on the training days to cover the workouts without whey. It's not perfect, but I get what I need.

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I'm lactose intolerant unfortunately, one reason why this is difficult for me :P

poor you :D

Then eating..... well... a lot of meat :D just basically increasing the intake you have now. look at the perfect pre, mid, post topic, get some whey... glucose, and the calories will come, rice would be a good source too, eggs too.

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Bryce Warren

Yea figured, my main thing was having to eat the same things several times a day, meat runs out real quick for me so I have frozen chicken tenderloins quite often because I can get big bags of them for pretty cheap. Does eating this much of the same foods each day have any negative effects? I always throw in a protein bar somewhere in my day as well, without them I definitely wouldn't get enough.

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Larry Roseman

Tofu is not a bad protein source. And a dollar or two for a tub is pretty cheap.

Fermented soy is clean as far as grains go. Very digestible.

The calcium is generally needed in high-protein diets too.

Asians eat a lot in general and have been known to have muscles, but if you are concerned about phytoestrogens

20g of soy protein is a number discusssed as being neglibible in this respect.

Life is a comprimise at times. You can't always have it all. Sometimes you have to

give something up to get something.

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Tofu is not a bad protein source. And a dollar or two for a tub is pretty cheap.

Fermented soy is clean as far as grains go. Very digestible.

The calcium is generally needed in high-protein diets too.

Asians eat a lot in general and have been known to have muscles, but if you are concerned about phytoestrogens

20g of soy protein is a number discusssed as being neglibible in this respect.

Life is a comprimise at times. You can't always have it all. Sometimes you have to

give something up to get something.

Man I wouldn't go for the soy. Blairbob had some serious arguments against it.

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Larry Roseman

The point isn't which is better, it is that soy protein is better than nothing.

And If the OP isn't getting anything, then certainly he won't grow.

It is the predominant protein in *most* protein bars.

It supports growth, though not as much as whey - but what else does?

In terms of negative impact, looking at one study tends to mask the overall finding (resulting in fooling oneself).

Here is a study review as recent as 2010 have shown no effect on hormones in men:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

So I feel your concern, but also believe it is unfounded.

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All i can say is i lived on the stuff for many years and was doing a strong physical practice and found myself skinny fat and undernourished. I don't recommend tofu in large amounts to anyone wanting to gain weight, ground beef or eggs are cheaper and do much more.

As for taste, i actually think it tastes great, but it turned my insides to mush.

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Larry Roseman
All i can say is i lived on the stuff for many years and was doing a strong physical practice and found myself skinny fat and undernourished. I don't recommend tofu in large amounts to anyone wanting to gain weight, ground beef or eggs are cheaper and do much more.

As for taste, i actually think it tastes great, but it turned my insides to mush.

Not sure this qualifies as a scientific study, but glad that you have recovered :)

Again, I'm not saying what is better. Meat and eggs have more prep issues so sometimes I'll have tofu,

but it is not a mainstay, nor am I recommending it in large amounts.

Anyway, I suspect if you enjoy you can try it again with out fear of muscle liquification.

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No its not a scientific study, just my experience as stated. I make no claims to being a nutritional scientist, but on tofu i have a strong opinion based on that experience. I won't recommend it to anyone, nor would i try to talk anyone out of it who ate it for their own reasons - eat away.

I'm not interested in eating tofu, i thought that was clear.

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Larry Roseman
No its not a scientific study, just my experience as stated. I make no claims to being a nutritional scientist, but on tofu i have a strong opinion based on that experience. I won't recommend it to anyone, nor would i try to talk anyone out of it who ate it for their own reasons - eat away.

I'm not interested in eating tofu, i thought that was clear.

Actually you said you liked the taste which implied some interest to me.

I am just suggesting that if someone liked the taste, a portion would not be damaging.

It is often prepared fried and probably tastes best that way, which may account for a lot of the fat calories.

However, I don't care who eats it or not, at least until the tofu association starts paying me per customer.

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  • 2 months later...
Josh Schmitter
I'm lactose intolerant unfortunately, one reason why this is difficult for me :P

If your not allergic to the casein and you can find it, raw milk might be good for ya. A lot of lactose intolerant people have done fine with the raw as it still has the enzymes for digestion that pasteurization destroys. Here's some general info and a lot of people in the comments talk about raw milk(also goats milk) having little effect on their lactose intolerance.

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WitnessTheFitness
The point isn't which is better, it is that soy protein is better than nothing.

And If the OP isn't getting anything, then certainly he won't grow.

It is the predominant protein in *most* protein bars.

It supports growth, though not as much as whey - but what else does?

In terms of negative impact, looking at one study tends to mask the overall finding (resulting in fooling oneself).

Here is a study review as recent as 2010 have shown no effect on hormones in men:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

So I feel your concern, but also believe it is unfounded.

It is a shame that stereotypes, and conclusions based on poor research that has since been invalidated, about soy and plant proteins persist even today. "Soy" conjures up images of effeminacy for many people, where as animal products are viewed as masculine, but the bottom line in nutrition is micro and macronutrients. Soy is an excellent source of protein, and isolate ranks near the top of every protein digestibility scoring system I've ever seen. Is it as great as whey? No, not quite; whey tops the charts. But you can still easily meet your body's protein demands for muscle growth with plant proteins. If you're consuming the right amount of protein and energy alongside a high intensity strength training program then you're going to gain muscle mass regardless if the protein is plant or animal based. Plus there are plenty of nutritional benefits for plant proteins: no cholesterol, very little saturated fat, high nutrient density, dietary fiber, and phytochemicals (though of course things like saturated fat are debated in nutrition).

I've trained for years with meat, eggs, and whey as my major source of protein, and have trained for a long time as a vegan, and have had no change whatsoever between muscle mass and strength gains between animal and plant proteins. If you're consuming enough calories and highly digestible protein as a part of your workout then you're going to get bigger, period. Soy is one of the most common allergies, so certainly it happens a lot that people have bad experiences with it, in which case they shouldn't touch the stuff with a ten foot pole. But we definitely shouldn't warn off others because of it, just like if someone breaks into hives after eating peanuts it has no effect on the people that eat peanuts everyday without a problem.

I don't consider myself that big of a guy, but I did put on 13 lbs more of muscle in my first year of veganism (has absolutely nothing to due with veganism itself; would have put on the weight just as easily on a meat diet) during which time I was consuming 125g of soy protein per day for a year straight. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of myself back when I was on a meat diet for comparison, but here's a few pictures of that time period (forgive the artsy-fartsyness of the pictures, was done for a photography project). I'm not that proud of my physique, but since I clearly haven't magically sprouted breasts or a vagina after consuming nearly 50,000g of soy protein in that year, hopefully it can dispel the nonsense stereotypes soy protein gets, especially among fitness enthusiasts :P

aurele7.jpg

aurele8.jpg

aurele9.jpg

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Larry Roseman
The point isn't which is better, it is that soy protein is better than nothing.

And If the OP isn't getting anything, then certainly he won't grow.

It is the predominant protein in *most* protein bars.

It supports growth, though not as much as whey - but what else does?

In terms of negative impact, looking at one study tends to mask the overall finding (resulting in fooling oneself).

Here is a study review as recent as 2010 have shown no effect on hormones in men:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

So I feel your concern, but also believe it is unfounded.

It is a shame that stereotypes, and conclusions based on poor research that has since been invalidated, about soy and plant proteins persist even today. "Soy" conjures up images of effeminacy for many people, where as animal products are viewed as masculine, but the bottom line in nutrition is micro and macronutrients. Soy is an excellent source of protein, and isolate ranks near the top of every protein digestibility scoring system I've ever seen. Is it as great as whey? No, not quite; whey tops the charts. But you can still easily meet your body's protein demands for muscle growth with plant proteins. If you're consuming the right amount of protein and energy alongside a high intensity strength training program then you're going to gain muscle mass regardless if the protein is plant or animal based. Plus there are plenty of nutritional benefits for plant proteins: no cholesterol, very little saturated fat, high nutrient density, dietary fiber, and phytochemicals (though of course things like saturated fat are debated in nutrition).

I've trained for years with meat, eggs, and whey as my major source of protein, and have trained for a long time as a vegan, and have had no change whatsoever between muscle mass and strength gains between animal and plant proteins. If you're consuming enough calories and highly digestible protein as a part of your workout then you're going to get bigger, period. Soy is one of the most common allergies, so certainly it happens a lot that people have bad experiences with it, in which case they shouldn't touch the stuff with a ten foot pole. But we definitely shouldn't warn off others because of it, just like if someone breaks into hives after eating peanuts it has no effect on the people that eat peanuts everyday without a problem.

I don't consider myself that big of a guy, but I did put on 13 lbs more of muscle in my first year of veganism (has absolutely nothing to due with veganism itself; would have put on the weight just as easily on a meat diet) during which time I was consuming 125g of soy protein per day for a year straight. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of myself back when I was on a meat diet for comparison, but here's a few pictures of that time period (forgive the artsy-fartsyness of the pictures, was done for a photography project). I'm not that proud of my physique, but since I clearly haven't magically sprouted breasts or a vagina after consuming nearly 50,000g of soy protein in that year, hopefully it can dispel the nonsense stereotypes soy protein gets, especially among fitness enthusiasts :P

aurele7.jpg

aurele8.jpg

aurele9.jpg

Well said, and done!

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Josh Schmitter

That is an impressive physique, indeed! I just wanted to point out, and it has been brought up in other threads here, that I don't believe there has been an example of someone who was vegan building that kind of muscle from scratch. As in, they had already gained a good amount of muscle beforehand. I would love to hear evidence contrary, but every time I've seen this argument brought up, it just seems to die with no rebuttal.

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Larry Roseman
That is an impressive physique, indeed! I just wanted to point out, and it has been brought up in other threads here, that I don't believe there has been an example of someone who was vegan building that kind of muscle from scratch. As in, they had already gained a good amount of muscle beforehand. I would love to hear evidence contrary, but every time I've seen this argument brought up, it just seems to die with no rebuttal.

He said he added 13 pounds of muscle mass as a vegan.

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Larry Roseman
That is an impressive physique, indeed! I just wanted to point out, and it has been brought up in other threads here, that I don't believe there has been an example of someone who was vegan building that kind of muscle from scratch. As in, they had already gained a good amount of muscle beforehand. I would love to hear evidence contrary, but every time I've seen this argument brought up, it just seems to die with no rebuttal.

He said he added 13 pounds of muscle mass as a vegan. Not good enough?

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That is an impressive physique, indeed! I just wanted to point out, and it has been brought up in other threads here, that I don't believe there has been an example of someone who was vegan building that kind of muscle from scratch. As in, they had already gained a good amount of muscle beforehand. I would love to hear evidence contrary, but every time I've seen this argument brought up, it just seems to die with no rebuttal.

He said he added 13 pounds of muscle mass as a vegan. Not good enough?

Hey! I added around 30 pounds (90% muscle - 8 % BF) in my first year as vegan, training gymnastics. 8)

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WitnessTheFitness
That is an impressive physique, indeed! I just wanted to point out, and it has been brought up in other threads here, that I don't believe there has been an example of someone who was vegan building that kind of muscle from scratch. As in, they had already gained a good amount of muscle beforehand. I would love to hear evidence contrary, but every time I've seen this argument brought up, it just seems to die with no rebuttal.

Veganism, as it exists in its modern form, is a relatively recent movement, and most people become vegan in adulthood rather than being born into it. So finding someone that went through muscle development entirely as a vegan is going to be very difficult. But really, there's no compelling reason (or reason at all) in nutrition to believe that the initial stages of strength training would only work on animal protein sources, despite the fact that plant proteins work perfectly fine for developing muscle. Bottom line is amino acids: amino acids are the body's building blocks, and the body can't distinguish and go, "Hey, these amino acids came from soy! Hah, sucker, I'm not going to use them to build muscle. Feed me some whey!" There isn't a single micro or macronutrient in animal sources that can't be found in plant sources, or as supplements, so I can't imagine why it'd matter if someone was vegan at the beginning of their strength training, versus midway through it.

I don't advocate that people use soy, since it is a super common allergy, and there's no reason for someone who isn't vegan to not just stick with whey, eggs, and meat as their protein sources. But in this day and age there's really no reason for the myths and stereotypes about soy and plant proteins to persist. There's nothing in the field of nutrition that reasons one wouldn't develop muscle mass getting their amino acids from plants versus animals, and for real life examples there are plenty of professional athletes, even Olympians, who have switched to veganism and still been amazing athletes. In terms of sheer hypertrophy you can find examples of vegan bodybuilders online.

When it comes down to it training method, recovery periods, and genetics are going to play a far larger role in one's hypertrophy development than whether or not they're chugging down soy isolate or whey isolate.

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There isn't a single micro or macronutrient in animal sources that can't be found in plant sources, or as supplements, so I can't imagine why it'd matter if someone was vegan at the beginning of their strength training, versus midway through it.

Can you get some forms of K2-vitamin, such as Mk-7, from plants or supplements? If I remember correctly, you can't :)

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WitnessTheFitness
There isn't a single micro or macronutrient in animal sources that can't be found in plant sources, or as supplements, so I can't imagine why it'd matter if someone was vegan at the beginning of their strength training, versus midway through it.

Can you get some forms of K2-vitamin, such as Mk-7, from plants or supplements? If I remember correctly, you can't :)

If memory serves, natto (fermented soybeans) has the highest amount of K2 of any food source, almost all of which is Mk-7. Other fermented foods, such as sauerkraut, contain K2 as well. As for supplements, according to a Google search there are synthetic vitamin K2 supplements that are vegan.

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Darn, totally forgot natto, I counted it as a cheese :D Sorry, my mistake.

Do I remember it right that D3-vitamin can also be made from vegan sources?

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