igalk474 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 you shouldn't arch it too much, altough it usually isn't completly straight also,you arch enough to get balance while incorperating the upper chest into it and pointing the feet upward, so that the angle of the whole body will be in line with the strapslike this:planche is a little easier the inverted cross, also because it's harder to balance in it, i think they are both cbut maltese is harder, which is d, also azarian is d too, then there is victorian which is harderthey all work on different muscle, though, all the muscle in the body are contracted while doing it,and all of the crosses work the arms and shoulders,in additioninverted works on the neck and upper chest , maltese works on the chest, victorian works on the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Thanks for the tips and pictures. Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a completely straight body in an inverted cross and I'm not sure if it's possible. I heard that inverted cross was once a D, but then it got downgraded to a C. I heard from some people that they should both be valued at a D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiyafan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What's the difference between azarian and iron cross? I tried to look at azarian on youtube and it looked like an iron cross to me.I think inverted cross with head below the rings should be given a "D" level difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 it's ok,i think that inverted cross is harder then planche and maltese is harder then inverted cross,none of them is at the same level, though, maybe for different body type, one thing maybe easier then the othermaybe they should do more letters for the codesinverted cross should be with the head down, if the angle of the arms is not straight there are deductionsazarian can prepare you for maltese, it's a little similar,because while you get into back lever, you press up, and get into iron cross position,this press is not easylike this, but to iron cross , not malteseF8rjRRswgfM or like this:http://youtu.be/nxuw-ZPt1cM?t=1m8s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiyafan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 like this, but to iron cross , not malteseF8rjRRswgfM or like this:http://youtu.be/nxuw-ZPt1cM?t=1m8sThe background noise of second video is even funnier than the first video itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 yeah, you should hear the start of the second video,it's brandon wynn, from usawhen i first posted those videos here, i was on mute so i didn't heard those videos, till now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seiyafan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 "try another one""he's upside down"LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 is there more questions you want to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Hutchins Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've been reading the thread and i've watched your videos. What i like most about your responses and posts is your attitude. You know you are lacking in certain areas yet you have the "I'm going to get it" attitude that not everyone has. Actually that very very few people posess. That being said, I have to be quite honest about your progress and ability. The routine that you performed would have scored in the lower single digits at best. I am a JO gymnastic judge for my state and can tell you that quite a bit of those skills were non recognition. Meaning that they would receive no credit. The holds... if you could even call them holds... were much less than two seconds and would get .5 off and non recognition. Beyond the technical aspects your foundation is seemingly non existant. The FIG code of points states that no gymnast should be doing skills that he has not yet mastered. Honestly it was hard to identify any one skill that you did other than knowing what it was supposed to be from the list of skills you assembled. So now that i have criticised you i do have some hopefully helpful advise. It will require lowering any ego you have down to zero and putting in some serious retrocative work. I would advise you going thru the junior olympic routines. you can find them on youtube if you don't have immediate access to them. just search "cumpulsory level ____" 4-7. and you will get the routine. That or i can send you them or link you to them. Either way it would be good to learn them in order and perform them. These will Start to get you the building blocks you need. That or you can seek personal instruction. But i believe the former is easier and more cost efficient Again you will have to humble yourself but at least we can help you and you will be limiting yourself to Basic elements ,staples, and shapes that every good gymnast Must have. Let me know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 thanks about what you said on the attitude,thanks about the honestyabout the video you watched with the routine, i wrote that this is a video of the first time i tried the routine,and it is a very old video, also i'm not working on this routine anymore i switched to an harder one that will take me some more time but will be a lot better and more challengingi actually on most of the workout work on the foundation and basics especially swings,i know about this rule in fig CoP, that you need to perform only skills that you have mastered and can perform safelyi think you watch some very old videos of mine, and misinterpreted stuff that i said,i'm actually trying to be very very humblei'll search those videos, thankssend me those links too, it will be greati actually have some of the best personal instructions in my country,i know all the coaches, and most of the professional gymnasts in my country,i know most of their methodsso i think it will be best to mix both, watching the video, and personal instruction,i usually love to train myself, and only after a month of progress i ask for tips, and continue to work on it and improve iti think that it's cool that you are a gymnastics judge , and can see which skill is ready and what point will it geti'll try to be really humble, and keep working on the basicsi want to really thank you for taking your time, and writing your honest opinioni really appreciate ithere is a more recent video of me (better to watch on youtube in full screen hd):KQyV6itfqv8 also i have more on my signaturetell me what you think about those skills in relation to the skills you watched on my old routine videoalso , i started training only an year ago, so i have done all these in little less than an yearthanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Hutchins Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 wow... after watching that video there is one thing i am certain of. And that is that you are Definitely going to get it. You have a ways to go but i can see from how you train that you are Serious about these rings. The higher level skill you are best at i would say is your straddle planche. you are very close to controlling that move. Your approach to your training however seems very much rushed. You must learn this to learn that a wise man once said. So the only strength holds i saw that you truly had mastered from the video are these: front lever, back lever, and l sit. Everything else was either too short or improperly developed. I would advise you to focus on a few moves at a time. I'm sure you have enough trainers telling you that tho. Either way here you go Iron Cross, L Iron Cross, Inverted Cross, Maltese. Your Cross is way too high. You aren't even close to getting credit for that. those last few degrees on the cross are a Killer. I would know. I used to train it and recently picked it back up till coach told me not to Here is the level 6/7 routine. it will change a bit soon but it will serve a purpose here. I also adjusted it a bit for your strength levels. Muscle up>Slow lower thru Iron Cross to hang>Straight Arm straight body lift to inverted hang> Inverted pike> cast forward to swing back>swing forward> back up rise L> press Straddle Planche> L hold> press HS> Lower slowly thru L to inverted pike> cast forward to swing back> front swing> inlocate>inlocate>dislocate>dislocate> layout dismount. This routine while simple is going to help you immensely in my opinion. If you want... perfect this, tape it, and put it up on youtube. all the holds are 2 long seconds. The straddle planche must show a stop, must go directly to the position, and can not be lowered into. the entire routine is done with straight body, arms straight, legs straight, and toes pointed. The Press HS is done without having forearms on the straps(as much as possible) back uprise, inlocate, and dislocate are FUNDAMENTAL to developing ring swing. There is no way around learning and mastering these swinging skills. Let me know if you're up for the challenge. You're very strong. Don't forget to acquire that very important ability called control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 thanks!i'm definitely going to try that routine,give me a month or twocurrently working mainly on swings, back/fron uprise, inlocate/dislocate, fwd/bwd kip, icon cross, planche, handstandand shoulder flexibilityi'll definitely include that routine in,the main stuff i need to work on before that is the back uprise, which needs to be better to get into L sit,and dislocate to dislocate, which i need to learn to continue after doing one, i usually leave it before getting the impact at the bottom, as i want to do the dislocate with shoulders a little above the rings first and then work on continuing after the dislocatei will definitely train on controlling and mastering the skills, but i also think it will come with the time, after doing it for some time you will start to master it more and morei also think i have another problem,my right arm is a lot stronger then my left arm,so when i swing, it sometimes swings diagonal,i probably need to work on my left arm so that they will be almost equal strengthso i keep working on the fundamentals with emphasis on mastery and controlthanks! , really appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Hutchins Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I look forward to seeing your progress. All those things you want to work on are in that sample routine. So good luck! :twisted: also to detrain your arm dominance try to train in front of a mirror so you can eye spot yourself. Don't let yourself do anything that your other arm isn't going to be able to keep up with. Also stay tight. Its much easier to move a rigid body around on the rings as opposed to a loose one. Squeeze your butt, core, and even quads while up there. It will make a dramatic difference. The rings are already hard enough. Keep up the good work!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 thanks!i'll do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 You should watch this video here, it will help you a lot! There are also some other quite interesting videos on this channel.Z4JegPH5FD8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 ok, i have made some great progress during this month! ,i now can do a straight 90 degrees iron cross and hold for more than 4 secondsalso i can now land the dislocate and continue after it, without releasing too soonalso backuprise to l sit got betteri think in a month i can start to train on that routine that ryanc talked aboutshoulder flexibility got a lot better and easier, still need to improve the technicabout swings and dislocate, started learning and simulating double pendulum physics,to research what i need to do optimally in each part of the swingalso a great book is , the science of gymnasticsreally gets in depth on the topicalso trained on some hyperthropy , and got bigger muscleshere is a video of my progress:NRX1yhpNjzA this is what i tried to do:Rings:butterfly pull to cross (like balandin)dislocateback uprise to maltesebwd salto tucked dismountbutterfly pulls training with latex bandsinlocate to back lever to kip to back lever to kip back uprise to crosskip to support,swing fwd and fall to back uprise to honma to support , press to handstanddislocateswingssalto bwd with twist dismountvan gelder push upstrampoline:double salto bwd tuckedsalto bwd stretched with 1.5 twistsfloor:salto fwd tucked to fwd roll to 3 flairssalto fwd to cartwheel to butterflysalto bwd tuckedsalto bwd tucked with no handspommel horse:circlesflairsrussianstell me what you think...thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 this is what i'm currently training on:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... mQzVFRhTmcthis is how i track my progress(the cells in yellow are what i''m currently training on)working on a lot of swings, dislocate(piked, stretched), iron cross, dismount heigthalso i noticed that after a dislocate, i should kick in the bottom of the swing too, and not just use the handsi think that soon i will be able to do 2 dislocates in a rowand then i will be able to do RyanC routine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 here is a new video of me training on dislocate, with a comparisionnFiLg3dR6Co what am i doing wrong?what should i do to do it better and not disconnect from the rings when i reach the bottom?thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Your body isn't getting anywhere near high enough, that much is obvious and probably explains why you are letting go of the rings (protecting the shoulders from being ripped out of the sockets, which is a good thing to protect them from). Look at your movement. I think you are either not strong enough or you just don't know how to do the element.Someone with more experience in this area will have to make a real judgement here, all I can say for sure is that you are definitely not getting high enough. Your body clearly needs to be level with the rings when you press the arms forward and swing down. That is not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 WIth that kind of training you will injur yourself and not talking just swing parts, strength too.Go to basics and learn how to swing on rings! You can't do inlocates or dislocates if even minimum swing technique is established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 thanks!most of the training i train , swings & dislocates, and some little kips & dismountsalso shoulder flexibilitymostly swings , 80% of the training time, 15% dislocates , 5% all the resti wanted to train on dislocate to make my swings better and get used to more height of fallmany times i train on harder skill to get the more easier skill,to get the iron cross , i trained on balandin (pull to support) with bands for a month, then i got the cross,and to get the planche better i trained on maltese with a spot for a month...i should probably kick to an higher angle, stronger.and keep my body hollow after the kip bwd when i press with the handsi'm still leaning to to the swings and dislocates , they are no way near perfecti'm still training on itwhat do you suggest to do to improve the swings?here are some swings i did earlier:T76Pu24Nhjc thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 You should stop all dislocates and inlocates and advance strength elements (azarians I saw...). You'll tear your shoulders.You should get proper training this is just injury calling.You've got decent video from a forum member of rings swings (although I don't completly agree, but most coaches have diffrent opinions on some things). And go step by the step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 here is a new video of me practicing swingsIDvfOP-1BrQ also , trying this progression: 5:26-5:40what should i do to improve it?thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igalk474 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 here are the swings progression with a comparisionZq4Kczx-BzY [better to watch on youtube at 1080p , full screen, and at x0.2 speed]i still think i have a big problem with shoulder flexibility,it improved over those few months, but still i've got a long way till it get to where i want it,flexibility takes more time to get then strength for me, at least twice but i still work on it almost every day, with the sticklike this:KoGtrEcsqPQ what am i doing wrong in the swings?what should i do to improve my swings?thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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