Please help me get started.

[Bob Sanders]

Hi I am new to the gymnastics area so I won't know any of the terms and all. I have been training at Ross's site with the body weight program called Never Gymless. Although some exercise requires equipment like resistance bands and a power tower station for clap pull ups which I don't want to buy. My abs are recently showing after all the hard conditioning drills. But I still need to work some more to shred the fat to be able to do a sit and reach. Now I do not have Gymnastics Rings nor do I have a place to hang them so that is a problem. I will be able to do some ground exercise such as the Planche I am working on on now and the front lever from the samples exercises from Coach Summers book. I also have a door pull up from Everlast.

So where can I get more exercise to progress on? And if I completely stop doing condition drills ( sprints, circuits, etc ) will I loose the bits of fat I stil have left on my lower abdominal if I switch completely to Gymnastic exercises?

[Gregor]

To lose fat you must create a caloric deficit with food and of course with body exercise. You can burn a little fat with 60% of your max. pulz. But that just small losing and almost nothing. You must know that with exercise like running you create a suficit and don't take that as losing fat, just creation of deficit.

Gymnast usualy don't have fat beacuse, they have high intese trainings (with that they make caloric deficit).

That's just a simple explanation....I hope, I was clear enough and you understood.

[Mark Weaver]

Titan,

Welcome. I haven't been here that long myself. I'm also no expert on how to lose weight. I have read from several independent articles that it's the high-intensity stuff that helps your body to keep burning fat. And you don't have to go much farther than coaches exercises for high-intensity.

I kind of got out of shape, due to not enough exercise, and too much junk food at work. I started doing just the plance progression and the front lever progression, and nothing else. No running, no situps, no jump-roping, and I got rid of the excess fat around my waist. If you look through the videos of Coach Sommer's students, you can see what his exercises do for their abs.

Definately buy the rings. Do you have a park nearby, or big trees with sturdy limbs? A high ceiling in your house, or garage? That's what I've used to hang my rings.

[Edward Smith]

Hit Titan,

firstly with the xtreme rings you can hang them anywhere (almost!). I hang them off a tree branch in my yard!

Now with fat loss.Two very simple sayings I've heard on the subject, which I have thought were simply genius are:

"You can't out condition the kitchen table" meaning you have to eat right, I heard this on a health/lifestyle show, it takes atwo-hour mid intensity workout to work off a banana split (there are many variating factors onthis so it isn't in concrete). Many forum members are avid paleo eaters, and some more just general low-carb, warrior dieters and some zone (I think).

Second one is "Caring how fat you lost in a workout is like caring how much ,uscle you put on" This one refers to the general fat loss workout of LSD (long slow distance), anaerobic and muscle building exercise are much better they boost your metabolism and more muscle rquires more energy.

I'll expand upon this later, off to school , anyway here's the link to where the first quote is from http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/460/

Ed

[Bob Sanders]

I know that in order to loose fat you need a deficit but I don't count calories. I just eat small meals every few hours or when I am hungry. I don't do slow long distance running. I do High Intensity sprints coupled with some resistance exercise. And I tell you it is painful and I hate it yet I like it at the same time. But I think that is at the end when I really like it. I hate every set every rep and every minute of the conditionings. But in the meanwhile I am also trying to build more muscle like the Gymnast at the Olympics. The MAX strength exercises I am currently doing are assisted one arm push up, one legged squats, body weight tricep extension an d pike press. But I have a hard time finding a challenging lower body exercise without equipment such as a resistance band so I do calf raise and modified ham curls. I can't do ham glutes raise because I do not have a training partner to hold my feet down.

So are there any more exercise I can practice at my level? Beside the planche and the lever. And I did search around but some exercise are too hard and don't talk about progressive movements I can do at my level like the one called Manna I think where you are do something like a inverted V-sit.

[Bob Sanders]

Ok I try to the the 1st step of the Manna. But I am confused. Am I suppose to put my hands, fingers backwards, on the chair and lift my but up and my legs bent to do this or am I on the ground with my legs on the chair bent?

[chauinc]

I don't know what level you are at currently but before you even attempt to build manna you should have a solid L and V sit. Here is a site called beast skills, it has many tutorials on body weight skills. It has the guide for the L sit if you need it. Also i read in the other thread you wanted to know what a straddle was. Straddle is when you have your legs apart in a move. Pike is the opposite of the straddle, a pike is when your legs are together in a move. In both instances your knees are not bent.

Straddle

Pike

[Blairbob]

First off, I would keep on with the sprinting drills. Gymnasts do a fair amount of sprinting in their vault and tumble training. Don't want to lose that.

If you don't have a place to hang rings, you will have to figure out somewhere to do dips. I don't really have a good tree to hang them from, but I go to the nearby HS and hang them from the football field goal and it works pretty good. A soccer field goal would work well too.

I wouldn't practice manna or v-sits on a chair. Sounds like a good way to have an interesting slip up. If I remember the article, straddle, lean back and try to push down while lifting your legs off the ground.

Bare in mind to really get somewhere in manna training requires loose hip flexors. Bent legs is fine to start, hands can be placed either way.

[Bob Sanders]

Thank You so much chauinc, for clearing that up and for that site. Thanks!

And Blairbob I dunno if your referring to the first step of the progression or the third strep (Middle Split Hold). The first step was called, I think, Elevated bent legs middle split hold. It said to use a chair to elevate... hold on let me just copy and paste the instructions......

1) Elevated bent leg middle split hold - (see the middle split hold narrative below for additional performance details)

Initially most people will find that they lack the hip strength necessary to lift their legs off of the ground with straight legs. This limitation can be sidestepped by performing a middle split hold up on a bench or chair etc and allowing their legs to bend as necessary. Over time, as your strength and flexibility improves gradually straighten the legs.

.......

So ok now I know not to do it on a chair but do I lean my legs on the chair or something. Because I can't lift my feet and butt off the floor. So I also can't do a L-sit.

[Nic Scheelings]

As long as the bench or chair is sturdy enough u should be fine to try ur manna training on it. Place ur hands on the chair and strive to straighten ur legs as the article details, as ur elevated ur legs can go below parallel. Obviously once u can get your legs out straight and parrallel move to the floor. That's how i have trained it.

Cheers

P.S. I would work on getting an L-sit first tho it should be fairly easy to develop and the strength will transfer a bit

[Bob Sanders]

Ok maybe the Manna is a bit advanced for me. But what other exercise I can do besides the Planche and the Lever?

I am working on the Planche right now with the Frog Stand. It is not hard as doesn't really work my muscles but I still can't hold on for 60 sec yet.

Oh and do you put your knee on the elbow or the inside on the elbow like the kid in the picture? I do inside but that makes my inside sore and it is quite red.

[chauinc]

Ok maybe the Manna is a bit advanced for me. But what other exercise I can do besides the Planche and the Lever?

I am working on the Planche right now with the Frog Stand. It is not hard as doesn't really work my muscles but I still can't hold on for 60 sec yet.

Oh and do you put your knee on the elbow or the inside on the elbow like the kid in the picture? I do inside but that makes my inside sore and it is quite red.

You should do handstands against walls to build strength. Once you can get a handstand going against a wall for around 15 seconds do handstand push ups(HSPU). Also i said in the post earlier you should try to get the L sit and V sit. When you get the v sit down you can do some L seat lifts. And if you have rings or a pull up bar you should try to get down the muscle up, it is a great skill to learn.

As for the frog stand I'm not to sure, I did the frog stand for a few seconds and didn't like it so i moved on to the tuck planche.

[Dillon Castro]

For the fat loss make sure you are avoiding foods with partially hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup, the former contains fats that cannot be digested easily by the body and the latter is chemically designed to turn directly to fat once digested. Eat lots of fruits, veggies, good amounts of meat/fish, complex starches (potatoes, whole wheats,etc.) and cut down on simple carbs (white bread, sugar, most baked goods). Don't necessarily cut fats out of your diet, contain them to a reasonable amount (10-25% of our daily caloric intake). It's not eating just eating fats that makes you fat. I also strongly suggest buying and using rings. The rings force the body to use many more stabilizers and simple movements can be extremely difficult. of course don't push yourself to the point of tendonitis or other injury. Remember progressive overload.

Hope that helps,

Dillon Castro

[Bob Sanders]

Ok I would get the ring and all but even though it is at a discount price it is still a little too expensive. It's not I can't afford it. I just would feel good. After just having to pay around 271 dollars for prescription glasses.

[chauinc]

Ok I would get the ring and all but even though it is at a discount price it is still a little too expensive. It's not I can't afford it. I just would feel good. After just having to pay around 271 dollars for prescription glasses.

Yeah the rings still feel pretty expensive but its a good investment, just remember sooner or later the price of the rings is going to go back to 70$. but if you don't buy the rings you can still learn pretty much all the moves on a pull up bar or at a play ground.

[Bob Sanders]

Ok so what type of exercise can I do beside Levers and Planches? And I still don't understand the First step of the Manna progression. Do I do the 1st exercise with the whole body elevated one a chair or bench of and I on the ground with my legs on the chair bent?

[IvanPS]

Well besides the lever and planche progressions you can practice handstands, handstand push ups, handstand presses, pseudo planche push ups, L-sits, V-sits, hanging leg lifts...

Here's Drills and skills parallette training article:

http://www.drillsandskills.com/article/15

Also check the other articles about presses, ring training and calisthenics.

Beastskills is also a good resource for fun body weight skills that help with strength.

[Blairbob]

Do the first manna progression on a chair or bench. Just find something solid. A set of parallettes might help but won't let your legs hang down as far.

[Bob Sanders]

Oh OK I understand it now. See right now I can't even do an straight full L-sit so I guess I have to work on that first. Thank you so much for the help and answers and the great sites IvanPS and Blairbob.

OK I also have a few more questions and I don't want to make another post when it is unnecessary. How should I build a routine of Gymnastic exercises? It is apparently different from any body weight or free weight or even machine style of training.

I am currently training with one legged squats, pull up, BW tricep extension,assisted one arm push up, hamstring curl from a chair, pike press and regular squats with maybe some weights. Maybe 4 sets and I will work with 5 sets for a few weeks to progress to more reps or lowering my rest time. Rep ranges are 5 to 10 or 12.

So how do you practice routines like the planche progessions like the frog stand? Is there a set ot rep?

[Blairbob]

For many of the strength holds, Coach Sommer reccomends training for a total count of 60 seconds in the position.

One of the easiest ways to program your workout is first to figure how much time you will have in total. How much time for warmup and how time for a rest period between exercises/sets. From there you can figure out how much work you can fit into an hour or two. Also I would look at this over a schedule for a week. You don't need to do all these exercises every workout day, as some are probably not required 4 times a week.

[Bob Sanders]

Ok thanks.