The Jump Manual for vertical?

[Felous]

I want to improve the height of my backflips and such. I'm thinking of buying the Jump Manual from Jacob.

Would you guys recommend it? Or anything that can help me out on vertical jumps?

Thanks a lot!

[Guest Valentin]

Hi

Personally i would not waste the money. THe program may be good may not be, however you dont need some program. From checking out this guys site, i am sure his program will help, and i am sure it will be quite effective but really you want to spend $$ on a program to teach you to do a higher vertical jump, and then later work on using that to improve your back flip? there is some correlation, but it aint what matters

1- To get a high back flip - technique is key. Many people don't understand that the backflip is about getting your hips and shins up and over and not just rotating backward.

2- The take-off for a GOOD! high backflip is not entirely dependent on your standing vertical, because the take-off is not like a normal standing vertical jump.

3- The is one simple rule here. If you want to jump heigher you don't need a magic progam. You simply need to overload your jumping as it currently is, regularly and consistently.

4- The key muscles for a high standing back are gluts, hamstrings, quads, shoulders. A good well coordinate arm swing in a standing back gives you about 16% of your maximal lift. The quads need to be strong eccentrically primarily, in order to have a good counter movement, the gluts and hamstrings are what are going to drive you up into the air and also extend your body (make you set well).

So my suggestion. film yourself side on, and compare yourself to

(this is good but it can be even better) Look at them hips rise!!!.

So from there on you need to do high load (85-90% of max 1/2 squat weight), low rep (2-5) with maximal movement speed (which may be slow but you are putting 100% effort every time) 2 and maybe after 3months 3 x a week (with 1-2 days rest in between) (1/2 squats), reveres leg extension work (for hamstrings), tuck up work with hip lifting (weighted ideally) (to get the stomach and hip flexor strength to bring the legs hips up and over), drop squats for quad eccentric strength (need to work on great! landing technique), full squats for quad extension. Single leg work helps but for specificity and coordination work double leg jumping work is best!.. Along with this do stading jumps onto the highest surface you can that will allow you to land no lower then into a 90deg squat.

And of course doing standing backs for technique (that would be of course a coaches job to help with) or

Hope that helps.my personal feeling on your post

[Julekman]

If you want to learn about something and manage your development, then you must know the important principles.

You cant go wrong with The vertical jump bible - Kelly Bagget. The best I read.

[Guest Valentin]

I smell well packaged BS! Sorry..it could be my ignorance. But anyone who has to sell their material through

"For example, Kelly's experimented with and mastered a super-rare and extremely difficult training protocol called "Delayed Post-Activation Potentiation"..

Interesting how only this guy has managed to achieve what no one in the scientific community studying this phenomenon has be able to. I just don't trust glossy packaged programs. Mainly because they usually hold nothing of true value... but i am very! open to discussion. Especially on the protocols he employs..

[Julekman]

I smell well packaged BS! Sorry..it could be my ignorance.

Sorry, but yes it is. This is not only program or something revolutionary, but very clear and logic scientific principles for how to improve rate of force and speed, and how to individualized program for you. My bad english doesnt allow me to deep more into material. I recommend you to read the book. And yes, the bonus, body recomposition, one of the best I read.

[Guest Valentin]

I got the book and will read it soon.. will be back to comment.

[Julekman]

I mention above, but read the bonus also

[Blairbob]

Verkhoshansky, anyone?

[Julekman]

Yes, but what I like in this book is more friendly, simple language and clear approach with look back on difference dilemma that people have when start to develop power and speed. Also very interesting is list of bodyweight exercises if you have problem to work with weights, and individualized approach with interesting box tests to determine where you are, and what to do. Of course this principles are not only for vertical jumps, but the power and speed itself.

[Felous]

Thanks a lot guys... and Valentin! I already started doing some of that stuff.

Right now, I'm doing Squats with the hack squat machine, reversal leg extension machine, and leg extension machine. I think I might be overworking my quads by doing both hack squat machine and leg extension. I feel alright, though. What do you guys think?

Also, would you guys recommend doing jumping exercises the same day (as leg lifting), and have a complete rest day on the following day? Or should I wait for the following day for the jumping/backflip exercises?

This forum is awesome. I wish I had started reading this beforehand when I had time. Lately, I've been so busy it's hard to come by!

[Blairbob]

More glute bridges, glute-ham developer, reverse hypers.

[Joshua Naterman]

Baggett's book is good, and is a great place to start understanding the basics of RFD if you don't know much of anything. He teaches a lot in that book, but the program is not the most ideal.

Out of all the programs I have seen, double your vertical by luke lowrey has the best programming by far. It is horribly expensive and doesn't really teach you much about how all this stuff works, but it will get you where you want to go. The program still isn't quite ideal, but it is very good.

I have not read the Jump Manual, I can not comment on it.

[kittyfat101]

A word to the wise though... be careful when buying from luke lowrey... if you see any of those 1 dollar things... man, he'll getchya good. haha. I tried reading through the stuff, was complicated... I own it... but yeah, i bought it for one dollar (that's my fault, i'm stupid), and it came with "bonuses," one of which was a call to his inner circle, which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist, because when you call his number, you only get a voicemail with a promise for a callback i think. anyway, this inner circle comes with one month free, then either like 70 dollars or 160 dollars a month to continue, which you won't know until it hits you. it is detailed in basically fine print in a very small link, that would be very hard to catch.

The program might be good, but if you want to get double your vertical... don't get robbed ;D praise the Lord, I was able to call them and get it canceled within that first month... i think.. hahaha

[Joshua Naterman]

I've heard about that. I got DYVL 3.0 about a month before he stopped selling it, for 99 bucks. It was a steal of a deal, really. None of those crazy charges. I got lucky with that one.

That's why I hate his style of business. That kind of stuff makes everyone scared to buy things, I think. It certainly makes me uneasy.

In the end 2-5 sets of 2-5 concentric-only jumps, like jumping up onto a box that is a good 6-8 inches below your max jump and landing with straight legs for example (to be done 5-7 days a week), combined with low amplitute straight leg calf hops (like 1-3 inches) with feet as close to parallel as possible, done for 2-3 sets 2-4 times per week (volume on both depending on whether you're accumulating fatigue or going through a lighter phase) will do the most for programming your CNS to create more force faster. Well, at least without any extra equipment. That's the most important part of jump training anyways. Strength is important too, but the rate at which you can apply force will determine how quickly you move, and that's #1 in sports.

Ideally you'd have some E-stim for your calves and glutes/quads, and a vibration plate to cycle on and off of on a monthly basis each. That's the fast track, but that's going to cost you. You can still make fabulous gains with solid basic training.

For more basic work on the strength side, concentric only SLS (starting from the floor and standing up) can be done essentially every day as well, so long as you don't overdo volume. Same can be said for SLDL (single leg deadlift), which is easily as important and probably more important for jumping. Get sand, make heavy bags, start at the bottom of a nearly straight leg SL deadlift (knee bend of 20-ish degrees) and stand up, drop the bags, repeat. That's the best way to do concentric only stuff. Make sand bags so you can drop them without ruining anything. 100 lbs of play sand will run you less than 15 bucks at home depot, and you should be able to find two cheapo duffel bags for a similar price. Remember, all you're doing is picking them up and dropping them. Eventually that will become explosive.

Finally, you can do something of an explosive jump squat in a similar way. Hang on to the sand bags, bend your legs, and explode up as you shrug your shoulders. You won't jump as high as normal because you are holding heavy bags and can't fling your arms up, but for developing the raw leg speed and power this is nearly ideal. Don't ever use a weight you can't move as quickly as your own bodyweight. This will be a fairly low load, much lower than you use for strength training.

A light hip belt is also fantastic for this, since weighted vests tend to change teh center of gravity and mess up jumping technique. You can buy a "hypergravity belt" or you can just make one, it doesn't matter which you do. If you decide to DIY, get creative. You won't need more than 30 lbs, and you won't need more than 5-10 at first. You can also use this for your calf bounces and the box jumps, as long as you don't notice a difference in your box jump.

[Guest actuary]

If you want to learn about something and manage your development, then you must know the important principles.

You cant go wrong with The vertical jump bible - Kelly Bagget. The best I read.

I agree with this, the vertical jump bible is really good. Baggett is probably the most reputable vertical jump trainer out there. Here's a Vertical Jump Bible review to look at if you'd like.

Other than that, there' s a lot of good information in this thread that can get you going. Slizzard's advice in the post above this is rock solid - clever idea with the sand to save some money. You could definitely get some good gains just from his advice alone.

Are you able to squat in a power rack instead of that Hack squat machine? Squats get a lot more glute involvement which is important for athletes. I don't know what kind of equipment your gym has but definitely don't skimp on the glute and hamstring exercises. I tore a hamstring back in September and I think a large part of the reason I did was because I wasn't doing enough hamstring work. I'm still coming back from that tear--not fun.

[jokerhart]

Check out this guys site. http://www.thefreetofly.com/ He is very knowledgeable on the subject. Read all of his essays and watch his videos. I think you'll be impressed. Once you decide on your current level of abilities, he only charges a couple bucks to print the program you will follow for a few months. Then you re-assess and determine a new program. He's totally not out for your money, which is really nice. I'm pretty new to it, so I don't have any results to post yet, but I really like it. Just take the time to navigate through all his material. Hope this helps..

[Joshua Naterman]

In regards to the squat comment, squatting is nowhere near as important as explosive deadlifting in jump training. Squats are honestly best used for two things: 1, in the full range of motion to help keep the hips active and 2, in the strong range of motion to develop specific quad strength to keep them in balance with the glutes and hams.

Squatting has less carryover to jumping than deadlifting for one simple reason: The load is at the top of the spine. This artificially limits power output because the spine is always less stable than the legs. THe faster you explode up the more force the spine experiences, and this forces your legs to limit output to what the spine can handle. Squatting with a hip belt would be ideal, but that isn't something that most people have access to unfortunately. That leaves heavy parallel grip dumbbell (I use this term loosely here, this could be two tricep bars loaded heavy) or trap bar deadlifts as your next best option. After that comes barbell deadlifts.

I just wanted to point that out to try and avoid confusion. I am not knocking squatting, but if you're trying to jump there are two things to remember: One, you always want to be moving fast, and heavy weight at the top of the spine makes that much mroe dangerous and tends to limit the speed your body will allow itself to move at. Two: single leg squats will be a more productive full range exercise than double leg squats. Heavy, heavy, heavy top range squats are great but ultra heavy quarter squats done with a hip belt are much better. There isn't really a way to get around that. You want maximum force out of your legs, so you need to create an environment where your legs are the limiting factor and not your back. I have done quarter squats with 600 lbs and my back was what kept me from going heavier. Even today, having not done heavy squats in probably two years outside of a very short timespan in the middle, I can quarter squat well over 450 completely detrained. We are way, way stronger in this range than we think, and our backs will always be a limiting factor here. If you want to fly at your maximum altitude you need to create the right training environments.

I looked at that free to fly sight, and it's good. I like him. It's not perfect and I think he's using too many words (I know, ironic words from me) but it's much better than I expected. He keeps it simple and more or less accurate. His article on training to jump higher is way wrong in a ton of ways, unfortunately. I haven't had time to review the site fully. I apologize if I seem like a hater, I simply believe in full reviews. Any site claiming to be able to help people meet their goals needs to be reviewed honestly. His science of sport training article is pretty good and has the basics. Those are the two articles he said he recommends people read so there we go, short reviews on the articles.

Edit: I am disappointed in his nutrition page. It's the same mindless crap that people keep spouting. None of it is dangerous, but none of it is terribly accurate either. Ah well. I think that I will have to purchase his programs to review them, I'm curious to see what he encourages. I think he has a good basic practical understanding of what people need to do since he tends to focus on 2-3 workouts per week. Let's see where it goes from there.

[Guest Valentin]

Hi

A good vertical jump is determined by a lot more then squat strength no doubt. I think that deadlifting is much better for the reasons listed by slizzardman (even though i would not put it in the same way), but also and to a large degree due to the hamstring and gluteal development. Also when considering the standing vertical one must take into account what type, is it a counter movement jump, or is it only a concetric jump. In theory using a CMJ technique one can achieve much better results, however this much harder because to optimize the strech shorten cycle in a CMJ there is much greater need for greater muscular Antagonist agonist coordination.

Also it seems that under high joint velocities of knee and hip extension (such as in counter movement jumps associated with the jumping), it seems the hamstrings are MUCH! more active then the quads.

[Tarun Suri]

Why would deadlifts be prioritizes over, say, power cleans? I would assume that power is much more important than strength when it comes to jumping. Am I missing something fundamental here?

[Guest Valentin]

Power cleans are definitely! much more important and beneficial to jumping. However the principles are the same. Notice how the similarity between power cleans and deadlift is greater than a squat and a power clean.

[Joshua Naterman]

The importance completely depends on where an athlete is least developed, but a power clean or power snatch is a much better indicator of a person's jumping ability than a squat or deadlift.

I would like to point out that I did not say anything about prioritizing deadlifts over hang power cleans.snatches. Hang cleans/snatches build the "triple extension" that is characteristic of a great two-legged jump.

Plyometric movements like a moving jump are definitely different than concentric only and should be higher jumps than a standing explosive jump if the athlete has been well trained in that arena. This is where SAID principles come in. You have to build the physical capability for the movement, but then you have to train the body to actually be able to perform the movement. Sometimes that gets overlooked. A truly complete jumping program is somewhat complex in that it involves strength work, RFD work, plyometric work, stretching of inhibitory muscles (hip flexors) AND actual skill practice.

[Guest Valentin]

The importance completely depends on where an athlete is least developed, but a power clean or power snatch is a much better indicator of a person's jumping ability than a squat or deadlift.

I would like to point out that I did not say anything about prioritizing deadlifts over hang power cleans.snatches. Hang cleans/snatches build the "triple extension" that is characteristic of a great two-legged jump.

Plyometric movements like a moving jump are definitely different than concentric only and should be higher jumps than a standing explosive jump if the athlete has been well trained in that arena. This is where SAID principles come in. You have to build the physical capability for the movement, but then you have to train the body to actually be able to perform the movement. Sometimes that gets overlooked. A truly complete jumping program is somewhat complex in that it involves strength work, RFD work, plyometric work, stretching of inhibitory muscles (hip flexors) AND actual skill practice.

Completely agree, and like. That is why i don't like any of the so called Vertical Jumping programs. Because none that i am aware of target or consider all the factors associated an individuals ability to generate vertical height from a jump (notice the ambiguous description of the the actual jumping method)