Are HS wall runs too dangerous for me?

[Franc Conn]

Hi there,

I have been slowly working towards the goal of a freestanding handstand for a few years now and can hold a HS for 20 secs max at present. I'm wondering if I am being realistic. I am soon to turn 50 and although I have body-weight trained for years, I have no athletic or gymnastic history. A childhood collerbone break has meant my left shoulder is weaker than the right and is prone to strains so after reading about how good HS wall runs are in building up the shoulder girdle I decided to try them out. I tried seeing how much I could do in 5mins. Yikes!! I had to stop and catch my breath every 30 secs or so and I can say without a doubt that this is the most taxing exercise I know. I am very keen to keep going with this as it will surely deliver benefits but I also have a cervical disc prolapse (c6/7) that means I must be very cautious with my training. More than a few times I have questioned the wisdom of a guy my age attempting handstands and would greatly appreciate advice. Am I basically too old and too handicapped to be doing handstands? Are wall runs just too unrealistic for me.

Thanks so much for such a wonderful website.

Franc Conn

[Cole Dano]

Its good that you are cautious. With any question of this nature, its really impossible to actually give a valid answer without actually seeing you. Especially when dealing with injuries in the neck and shoulders, which could be interrelated.

Most likely you can do handstands etc, but i would first encourage you to work on your shoulder ROM and if possible do some corrective exercises to help balance your shoulders if the previous injury will allow it.

I'm assuming, perhaps unfairly, that you can afford to invest something into this. If so you could take some yoga classes to help with the ROM, perhaps even better set up a private class and have your shoulders looked at. It doesn't have to be yoga, a good PT, or trainer, RKC, FMS etc. see if they will talk to you on the phone or via email explain your issues and if they give an answer that indicates they can help check them out.

Learning things like Handstand is not only possible at your age (about the same as mine) but also beneficial. However, when there are existing injuries that might prevent healthy movement, they may be best addressed first or at least as part of the learning process.

I teach yoga, and recommend things like Ido's stretch band routine all the time. I'm slowly becoming the shoulder guy in my area. I have a 'self practice' class every morning and wind up teaching the routine to lots of people. What i notice is with adults, there are lots of movement issues that i have to 'coach' them through in order to do the program. Its shocking how often someone will start the program and not have any idea of what they are doing. It only takes a couple of corrections though to get them on track and then they are on their own and the shoulder re-deucation process begins.

For this reason, i believe you'll wind up saving yourself lots of time if you can find some one COMPETENT that can coach you in some way. I suggest yoga, because a good teacher will know how to help increase your shoulder ROM safely and get you in touch with your shoulders. They will also have a good foundation on how to correctly perform a handstand, though i doubt they will know the wall walks, or, sadly anything about therapeutic use of bands.

There is just no replacement for hands on coaching. If you do get it and want supplementary help and info, i'll do all i can to help.

One word of encouragement, right now one of my best students with HS and backbends is a lady in her mid 40's who is only now coming into her prime. I mention her, because she also has had a broken collar bone as a youth but through consistent dedicated work overcome the issue and has some of the most open shoulders i've seen.

[jl5555]

Hey, I'm totally impressed that you can do 30 seconds the first time you tried. When I first started with wall runs I could barely manage a few sets of 12-15 seconds. I do weekly sessions now and I'm up to 3x50-60s, 3x40-50s, 3x30-40s, 3x30s sets. It's tiring no doubt but the flexibility, strength and mobility gains I've seen are awesome.

I don't have medical issues that I know about so I cannot speak to that affecting your workout. If you're not quite sure about supporting your whole bodyweight during the HS runs maybe you can do them initially with your legs piked up on a box or perhaps your feet up on the kitchen counter and your hips at a 90 degree angle. Build up your strength and endurance this way until you are more confident supporting yourself in full HS.

[Blairbob]

HS for 20s, free or on a wall?

With the rec kids, I'll let them try HS wall runs (head or shoulder tappers) but realistically, it's not something we do for an extended period of time given their strength and the length of their class.

For a competitive athlete, I would prefer a wall HS with 60s with proper core position (hips tucked under, butt tight, ribs in) before wall runs. I think Coach may have said 60s "wrist" wall HS prior.

However, you can angle them.

You can play with the skill a bit but make sure you can go slowly and controlled for now given your shoulder. My right shoulder is a bit wonky, but I generally just burst them out if I do them on a wall so I can get through the 50 or 100 fast. Not really if done free. When focusing on 1 arm HS, I go slow of course.

[Franc Conn]

Thank you so much Mr Brady,

I am really grateful for the time and thought put into your reply.

When posting my question I was aware just how hard it would be to assess a physical problem over the internet, but hey, your one reply gave me more usable info than some of the physiotherapists I've spent hours of "in person" time with.

Suggesting Ido Portal's stretch band routine is gold and I thank you for it. I am happy to report that I stumbled upon his blog a few months ago and finding his scapula and shoulder stabilization exercises was a real "aha" moment. They have become cornerstones of my workouts and my balance and ability to hold a freestanding HS and transition from Crane Pose (tuck) to HS has clearly improved. It astounds me, in retrospect, that I have never seen anyone in my gym performing similar prep work. But, then again, no-one else does handstands or much body-weight work either.

My other "aha" moment was when I recently read about Coach's HS wall runs and their benefits. But I think the sheer vigour required in the upper back shocked the disc prolapse from its slumber. I am hoping that this is just an initial phase (as with most new exercises, the body will protest) and that with advice such as yours and a considered, steady approach the prolapse will co-operate and let me get on with my HS journey. It's hard not to get a little despondent and question yourself when you hit a stumbling block such as this.

I live in Sydney and you would think it would be easy to find a HS-aware trainer in a modern city. NOT!!

I do some basic yoga work but not a regular class. I worry that it may take ages and lots of money to get to a level of concentrated inversion work beneficial to HS training. Plus, it is difficult to decide which road to follow in terms of expense. E.G: do I spend $80 bucks a week on a physio, or massage therapist, or osteo, or pilates class, or yogi, etc, etc persuing something that most others see as just a kid's hobby (Q: "Good grief Charlie Brown why, at your age, do you want to do a silly handstand?" A: "AAARRRGGGHHH!!!").

Okay! So I'm in a bit of a negative head-space right now and this is not the forum for unloading baggage. I do apologise.

Thanks again Mr Brady for your wisdom and encouragement.

In appreciation,

Franc Conn

[Cole Dano]

I totally understand where you're coming from on on who to go to and how much to put into it.

It can be really frustrating, i've gone though it and i imagine anyone interested in educating themselves in any way will have the same. What's the saying about needing to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince. Its not so different.

I just set a mental budget of time and expense. Tried various approaches and practitioners until i found some that worked for me. I'd give things two tries at most to produce some kind of result, if i got it, then i stick with it.

There are two things you are up against, one is finding the right approach, body work, PT, etc. In fact this very well may turn out to be a combination thing, one week a massage, next a yoga class etc....

The second and in most cases more important is finding the right practitioner. The variance is astounding, but if you find someone who is actually good at what they do it makes all the difference, and that's why i'll give a person two chances at most, its usually pretty obvious by then if they can help.

Of course in the mean time you've got to keep doing something, so keep doing what you can, there was some good advice above to help there too.

Its a process, and i think even the most advanced people on the forum spend a lot of time on educating themselves via research, seminars, etc. In a way it really is a never ending process, just make sure that what you do isn't wasting your time, decide ahead of time how much each month you want to put into it. Don't fret when you wind up finding more frogs than princes the first few months. When you find something that works you'll know and stick with it a while.

[Franc Conn]

HS for 20s, free or on a wall?

With the rec kids, I'll let them try HS wall runs (head or shoulder tappers) but realistically, it's not something we do for an extended period of time given their strength and the length of their class.

For a competitive athlete, I would prefer a wall HS with 60s with proper core position (hips tucked under, butt tight, ribs in) before wall runs. I think Coach may have said 60s "wrist" wall HS prior.

However, you can angle them.

You can play with the skill a bit but make sure you can go slowly and controlled for now given your shoulder. My right shoulder is a bit wonky, but I generally just burst them out if I do them on a wall so I can get through the 50 or 100 fast. Not really if done free. When focusing on 1 arm HS, I go slow of course.

Thanks Blairbob,

I should have said "20second freestanding HS" though I'm sure my form sucks and I have "wall dependency issues". BTW yes I can hold a wall HS for more than 60 secs.

I have decided to try the wall runs for 5 minutes (in sets of 20-30) every other day until my endurance increases. The day after my first attempt my neck, shoulders and upper back were very tight and sore but I expected that. A week later and it feels like just another exercise (albeit extremely challenging) with just slight shoulder soreness and no further disc trouble so I feel happy to continue.

One thing I was happy to notice is that the wall runs give you a glimpse of the possibility of a one-armed HS. I had never before even attempted to support my weight with one arm in a wall HS but I can now see a path to that goal but for the foreseeable future a FHS will remain my challenge.

Thanks for the support,

Cheers,

Franc