Basic Principles of Multiple Sessions

[John Sapinoso]

Due to recent post, I decided to begin adding multiple sessions per day. What are some reliable resources to learn more about the basic principles of programming for multiple sessions per day?

Since the beginning of last weekish or so I've structured the majority of my 2 session days like this for a few exercises:

first workout:

either statics or low rep range of X

second workout:

higher rep range of easier variation or related exercise to X

I also spend a bit more time on my pre/rehab here.

ex: 3 x 15 s iron cross in the first workout becomes 4 x 7-10 RTO dips in the second.

Any information (or even sample blog) is very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Johnny.

[Alex Dienaar]

If I am correct, there's an article from Charles Poliquin floating around about working out twice a day and ways to plan it.

With examples as :

AM - Strength (1-4 reps)

PM - Functional Hyperthropy (5-9 reps)

AM - Speed

PM - Max Strength

AM - Max Strength

PM - Eccentrics

Basically with the premise that doing the intense work that recruits alot of muscle fibers first in the day will make your muscles ready and activated for the lighter work later in the day.

I'm playing with this as well at the moment, I'm googling hard at the moment to find the article for you, just a second!

[John Sapinoso]

looks familiar

is it this?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... =113625161 ?

[Alex Dienaar]

Yeah! That's the one.

[John Sapinoso]

another tidbit

"Charles Poliquin Tip 97: Training twice a day the same muscle group is the fastest way to gains in strength and muscle. As a rule of thumb, intensive work (lower reps, more sets, faster tempos) in the morning, extensive in the evening (higher reps, slower tempos, more exercises)."

maybe i'm missing something but that doesn't sound as complex as i thought it would be.

[Alex Dienaar]

It really isn't xD

It's all pretty much just a matter of building up the workload for it, focusing more on the higher intensity stuff in the morning, medium/lower intensity stuff in the afternoon (or however you want to do it).

Also recommendations of same body parts a day for the best results, but with gymnastics it's kind of a given ^^.

I don't know exactly how it is with straight arm/bent arm combinations, but if they work about the same muscle groups and you hold true to the perscription of charles (fast/heavier loads etc in the morning, slow/more reps in the evening) it sounds very valid.

If you want to see how I try it at the moment, I just posted my first post in the logs xD (Not that my strength is anywhere near yours).

Loving the results of it by the way, went in 3 weeks from a 12 second max Adv Tuck to a 20 sec. Pullups went up in weight in no time as well, quite the muscle gains in the upper body. Just trying to make sure that I don't work the moves that depend alot on joint strength too often.

[Razz]

Gonna have to keep this thread in mind when I start planning my summer workouts! Hopefully Ido can weigh in here

[Joshua Naterman]

another tidbit

"Charles Poliquin Tip 97: Training twice a day the same muscle group is the fastest way to gains in strength and muscle. As a rule of thumb, intensive work (lower reps, more sets, faster tempos) in the morning, extensive in the evening (higher reps, slower tempos, more exercises)."

maybe i'm missing something but that doesn't sound as complex as i thought it would be.

It's not complex at all!

I've done this quite a lot in the past, and am getting back to doing it again now that I have a truly incredible gym set up at home!

It's just like he says, not that anyone would doubt him, but heavy work before light work. It doesn't have to be morning/evening, as long as you have a minimum of 2 hours in between and focus on one training effect per session you'll be fine. I'd prefer to have 4 hours, personally, but that's me.

What I am experimenting with now, as I get further along in my shoulder recovery, will be to do heavy weights in the morning and GB work in the evening. So morning will be push presses or behind the neck presses, and the evening will be advanced gatherings or HeSPU. Same idea down the board for dips, bench(not for a while, I want to have perfect shoulders before I start that plane of pressing, weighted or GB), squats, abs, etc.

[Guest]

I want to play around with multiple workouts a day as well, since I train at home exclusively. A heavy-light distribution makes sense, but how to incorporate the FSPs? And as an alternative two-workouts-a-day programme, would it make sense to do FBEs in the morning and FSPs in the evening (or vice versa)? I'm just curious, I am not implying anything about whether or not I believe an FSP-FBE division is 'better' than a heavy-light division

[Joshua Naterman]

If you're going to divide like that I'd lean towards mornings for statics, but if you're doing heavy lifting then your statics should be in the evening. They fall into the more moderate intensity category when training them, especially straight arm stuff.

I think you will find that there isn't much of a difference, honestly, but if you try it out then try each of them for two weeks and see how you feel, then go with what seems better for you.

[Guest]

No lifting, just bodyweight stuff. I was actually leaning towards FSP in the mornings as well. I will probably try both variations.

And if I would introduce a heavy-light AM-PM division in my FBEs, would you do some statics in each of the two workouts, or all statics in just one of the two workouts?

[Guest Ido Portal]

In my workshops, espcially in the US, I always emphesize this point:

put various principles under priorities. For example, when being asked by some clearly overweight (above 10 percent BF in my book, for males): 'what kind of post workout insulin managment agents do you recommend?', I would reply: 'are you drinking anything but water and unsweetend coffee and tea?' I refuse to answer this kind of question unless the client/atendee takes care of basic issues first. First things first.

With all due respect to the great advice you have been given above, I guess you are going after twice a days to increase volume and exposure to various elements, so simply, first do that. Just put another session in there, and do the work.

If it is 4 hours later or not, if you are doing heavy training in the PM instead of the AM, etc, this kind of thing should be left for later on, when you will already be in control of basic template of multiple sessions a day.

To tell you the truth, I train 8 and sometimes 10 or more hours a day, if I had tried to follow these principles I would never have gotten any work done. I am humble enough to understand that I am not there yet. I rather do the work than get paralisys by analysis.

My advice: add a session a day 3 times a week. Advance to two a days each day. Start from there, without too many confusing guidlines.

Ido.

[Guest]

Your advice is well taken Ido, thanks. But actually I'm looking for the most efficient way to split my normal routine in two - I'm not looking to increase my volume right now (I'm still a newbie in terms of strength and conditioning and I do want to get a firm basis first). But my daily occupations make it hard for me to train in a single session, so that's why I'm interested in a new approach. And I would like to do that in the most efficient way, so that's why I'm asking but your advice is valuable of course.

[Joshua Naterman]

Ido's really hit upon the most basic rule, which is to go ahead and split it some way so that you can do everything you want to do. Go ahead and try a FSP/FBE split, and see how it works for you. Experiment with it once you get a better feel for the routine if you feel like you need it.

[Guest Ido Portal]

I am just trying to help you guys maintain focus on what is important.

First things first. I am all for fine tuning and efficiency, but lets not kid ourselves, you have to earn these small details.

Ido.

[Joshua Naterman]

I really appreciate it! I'm much more productive with my workouts than I was a year ago, and you've had a lot to do with that.

[John Sapinoso]

Thanks a lot for the replies guys, really appreciate it.

To clarify, my goals for 2x/day is first and foremost to increase my work capacity. Second is to improve my joint health. Lastly to increase my strength.

I'm okay with poking around a bit in the dark while I build up the capacity to handle 2x per day, I just don't want to do something horrendously stupid or break basic principles in the process that will inhibit my progress or injure me. I'm not the guy that eats 6 cheeseburgers, 3 large french fries, an ice cream sunday and then a diet soda cause he's worried the high fructose corn syrup in regular soda will make him fat.

[Nick Van Bockxmeer]

day: everything. wake up do some basic dynamic joint work.

FBEs, all other dynamic and strength training, parkour and my ride to and from uni.

late afternoon: swim at beach or pool

evening: foam rolling + stretches + shoulder and wrist prehab + statics (usually HS and pick whatever I feel like training out of L sit, levers, planche, ring supports, bridges etc).

sometimes I do some statics during the day but not really. I don't do everything every single day because I don't have time and recovery ability but ideally it would be something like that.

[John Sapinoso]

here's basically what i did the last 2 weeks.

notes:

I feel great, just a lot hungrier and requiring more sleep. As a side note i've had better sleep and remembered at least 1 dream per day almost everyday. Elbows feel a bit sore after cross days, no surprise there, but I'll artificially slow myself and decrease the intensity a bit.

Critique is always welcome and encouraged.

Monday:

AM:

warmup:

1 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

1 x 8 4020 cuban presses

1 x 15 wrists flexors / extensors

statics:

7 - 10 sets of planche variations for 60 seconds total

3 rounds:

3 pseudo nakayama negatives

5 bulgarian HSPU

cool down:

2 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

2 x 8 4020 cuban presses

2 x 15 wrist flexors / extensors

PM:

warmup:

1 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

1 x 8 4020 cuban presses

1 x 15 wrist flexors / extensors

statics:

4 - 6 sets of planche variations for 60 seconds total

3 rounds:

7 - 10 germans

7 - 10 gatherings

7 - 10 snatch grip deadlifts on a 6 inch platform

cool down:

2 x 10 shoulders and scap (cables, heavy)

2 x 3 4020 cuban presses

2 x 10 wrist flexors / extensors

Tuesday:

AM:

warmup:

1 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

1 x 15 wrists pushups

1 minute medicine ball or foam ball rolling on back

5 bridge walks

1 minute medicine ball or foam ball rolling on back

statics:

12 rounds:

30 second rings handstand

45 second rest

3-5 sets per side side lever for 30 seconds total

cool down:

2 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

2 x 15 wrists pushups

1 minute medicine ball or foam ball rolling on back

5 bridge walks

1 minute medicine ball or foam ball rolling on back

PM:

warm up:

1 set ido's squat clinic routine

20 feet dynamic pike to hollow walk stretch

20 feet ostrich walks

3 x 15 calf raises

3 x 5 SLS

3 minutes medicine ball rolling on quads

3 x 5 GHR

3 minutes medicine ball rolling on hamstrings

3 minutes medicine ball rolling on glutes

cool down:

1 set ido's squat clinic routine

2 x 30 seconds weighted active pike stretch

Wednesday:

destructured movement, play, rest, self massage and active recovery techniques

Thor's day

AM:

warm up:

1 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

1 x 8 4020 cuban presses

1 x 15 wrist flexors / extensors

1 x 10 reverse curls

statics:

7-10 sets iron cross 60 seconds total

intersperse reverse curls and ball / manual massage as needed

3 rounds:

3 OAC

3 RTO (weight and lean as necessary)

cool down:

2 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

2 x 8 4020 cuban presses

2 x 15 wrist flexors / extensors

2 x 10 reverse curls

PM:

warm up:

1 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

1 x 8 4020 cuban presses

1 x 15 wrist flexors / extensors

1 x 10 reverse curls

statics:

4-6 sets iron cross 60 seconds total

intersperse reverse curls and ball / manual massage as needed

4 rounds:

8 OAC negatives

8 bulgarian

cool down:

2 x 10 shoulders and scap (cables, heavy)

2 x 3 4020 cuban presses

2 x 10 wrist flexors / extensors

2 x 10 reverse curls

Friday:

AM:

warm up:

1 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

1 x 8 4020 cuban presses

1 x 15 wrist flexors / extensors

statics:

7-10 sets front lever 60 seconds total

3 rounds:

5 yewkis

5 front lever rocks

cool down:

2 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

2 x 8 4020 cuban presses

2 x 15 wrist flexors / extensors

PM:

warm up:

1 x 15 idos shoulders and scap (band)

1 x 8 4020 cuban presses

1 x 15 wrist flexors / extensors

statics:

4-6 sets front lever 60 seconds total

4 rounds:

7-10 front lever rows

7-10 leg lifts

cool down:

2 x 10 shoulders and scap (cables, heavy)

2 x 3 4020 cuban presses

2 x 10 wrist flexors / extensors

[John Sapinoso]

one more note: my weight normally tends to fluctuate from 170 to 180, during these two weeks I've been on the lower end of that spectrum (170-173 almost the whole time) and visibly leaner (haven't measured). I've been eating whats seems like twice as much, I eat when I'm hungry and I get hungry twice as much.

[Guest Ido Portal]

Johnny,

it looks solid, my friend.

Not too much volume at each session, lots of prehab work, etc...

Your lower weight is a direct product of going into two a days. If you continue to lose weight, back off a bit and try again with a bit less volume. It should normalize, though.

I would increase protein consumption if you didnt already (up to 2 gr/pound) and supplement with digestive enzymes and HCL to make sure I support digestion.

Also make sure to increase sleep to 8-9 hours a night, and add a nap of 45 min between workouts when possible.

I can go on with recommendations here, but those are the most important - sleep and nutritional support. Once it is taken care of, you can go to more advanced means - supplementation, epsom salt baths, deep tissue work, micro current, etc...

Keep it up, welcome to the multiple sessions a day club.

Ido.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

One question: you seem to do lots of cuban presses, for warming and cooling down, what weight are you using?.

[John Sapinoso]

Ido,

Thank you for the response and advice, truly appreciate it. I have my sleep in check during training days although non training days I'm admittedly not as strict as I could be. Current dietary protein intake is only around 1 g / lbs, once I find a good local protein powder I should be able to increase to 1.5g / lbs.

omegant,

currently:

8 reps @ 55lbs

3 reps @ 80lbs

[Razz]

Ido do you have any recommendations in regards to HCL and digestive enzymes? This is an area I'm completely blank on, and until I get more knowledge I will have to just trust someone. Not that I'm planning to rush out and buy anything though. If anyone else has articles/studies etc please post

[Brendan Coad]

Razz,

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Articles ... aspx?ID=27

Hope that is helpful