Sign in to follow this  
Walt Peacock

Steady State Training Cycle

Recommended Posts

Joshua Naterman

That's a really good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ASForum
That's a really good idea.

As I suggested in one thread.. We should have a little Wiki..managed by the Mods & contributed to by the likes of Slizz :) .. Ur the man :) Always sharing sharing sharing.. I dont remember if it was you or Blairbob who suggested contacting Coach about it in case he never saw... well I was out of here for a while.. did he? :D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Felous

What's good ladies and gents? I'm new to pretty much all of this and I got me the BtGB book not too long ago. First I'd like to thank Mr. Sommer for sharing the information with us.

I'm confused about the steady state training cycle and I've read that section on the book several times and I've been reading this thread for assistance. First, allow me to share my goal with you guys, since that might help some. I'm 24 years old, 6ft, 160lbs, and I want to be able to perform couple of gymnastic and breakdancing moves.

I'm trying to perfect my forms on my round-off, backhand spring, and backflip, but I only have access to regular gym mats, since I can only make it once a week, if that, to the gymnastics place. I'm working on windmill and I want to get to a point where I can do flares and air flares. That's what I'm training for right now.

1) Is the steady state cycle for FSP is supposed to have three phases? Overload, load, and under-load? If so, how do I find guidance on how to set it up for my goal?

I have couple more questions, but I'll re-read some of the forums again to make sure I didn't overlook anything.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

The phases aren't changes in the work that you do, they are changes in how hard your body is working when DOING the work.

For the first few weeks pretty much every SSC will be challenging. That's "overload". After a month or so you'll start realizing that you aren't as tired as you were at first (your body is now used to this training load), and by the end of the third month(if not before) you'll start itching to add more time to the holds because they are getting easy and you will realize that you can clearly do more. This is the underload, and it is the most important part. This is when your nervous system is getting very good at what you are doing and your muscles are able to do the work without sustaining much damage. This is when your body sets its new baseline. If you move on from this too fast your body will still "remember" a lesser load limitation and your progress will not be optimal. You'll still make progress, of course, but you will be making less than you should be. The key here is learning to be excited about your work becoming so easy, and not being excited about doing more! You need the underloading period, it is a natural part of CNS rejuvenation as well as physiological adaptation of the body's homeostatic set point. IN plain english, this is basically when your body becomes used to a new level of strength and accepts it as the "norm" and something it will strive to maintain, as opposed to the load being somewhat outside the norm and something the body is adapting to but will quickly lose the ability to maintain should you stop working on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Felous

So, it usually takes 8 to 12 weeks like coach Sommer describes in the book? As soon as you can tell it's become easy, you can test your new FSP moves and stick with them for a new cycle? Cool!

I can't find word per word, but I'm under the impression that you are to stick with the same FSP each day of the week throughout the whole cycle. So, I'd be doing 3 or 4 FSP every day of training (3 to 4 days a week).

I'm interested in doing the integrated training coach Sommer described, and he says you'd set aside the SSC for your static strength work, in favor of SSC for your basic strength work. I'm not sure what he means by this.

I'm thinking of doing 3 FSP, 2 FBE each day of training. So, I'd just do #1-FSP, rest 30 seconds, start #1FBE x3, start #1or2-FSP, rest 30 seconds, start #2FBE, and be done for basic strength training?

Sorry to be a pain to everyone. Thanks.

PS: Thanks slizzardman. I almost went down to ATL for a salsa congress. But eventually I'll make it down there to go shopping! I stay in Charleston, SC. Feel free to come down whenever you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mikko Saks

Im training 4 times per week now, and been focusin on handstand, levers and planche and been getting pretty good results i think. I only have 2 different training sessions, and i train them twice a week with 2 days on 1 day off -system.

Day 1

static: Planche and front lever progressions

dynamic: Hspu

Day 2

static: Back lever and Handstand training

dynamic: L-pullups

I also train bjj 3 times per week.

So i´d keep it simple. Any opinions, is this kinda programmin good for a steady state cycle? Should i train more/less? Take some other dynamics or statics into my routine? I´ve been training btgb -style a year now, and my backlever is 5sec, tucked front lever 10sec., tuck planche 5sec, and free handstand about 20sec. (not so solid every time). I do wrist (p)rehab also. Im 29yo. and 175cm/84kg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

Mikko: I think the training cycle you have set up looks fairly good on the surface. It's hard to judge without seeing the whole thing, but how you eat around the workout will have a large effect on your progress as well, so make sure that is as good as you can get it without making your life hell! I would suggest that you work your L sit 3 or 4 days per week and put planche on maintenance mode until you have your L sit at 60s. Don't abandon planche, but don't put tons of energy in it either. You also need horizontal pulling and horizontal pressing. You may want to do body rows and bulgarian rows with your HSPU, and PPP and dips with your L-pull ups. I think you will find that this greatly enhances your program. With the pull ups, I would use as many different grips as you can. Close, wide, regular, chin up, parallel, pull up, etc. It's a good idea, that will keep your strength balanced across the elbows, forearms and back/shoulders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman
So, it usually takes 8 to 12 weeks like coach Sommer describes in the book? As soon as you can tell it's become easy, you can test your new FSP moves and stick with them for a new cycle? Cool!

Not quite. You don't want to move on until the cycle has been easy for at least 4 weeks AND you have been going at least 8 weeks. So basically, 8 weeks is the minimum, but you also need to have the workout be consistently easy for 3-4 weeks before you re-test.

I can't find word per word, but I'm under the impression that you are to stick with the same FSP each day of the week throughout the whole cycle. So, I'd be doing 3 or 4 FSP every day of training (3 to 4 days a week).

Yes. Same FSP, same variation, same hold time, same rest time, same angles, same everything. If you do L sit on the floor or a flat surface, that's where you do it every time. You don't switch between PB and floor. That may seem like a small thing but it will make a difference.

I'm interested in doing the integrated training coach Sommer described, and he says you'd set aside the SSC for your static strength work, in favor of SSC for your basic strength work. I'm not sure what he means by this.

What he means is that instead of doing a SSC every day with all FSP, you will perform FSP before each set of the day's exercises, at least until you hit a 60s aggregate total. I do not know how this applies to FSP prerequisites. Integrated training is using FSP and FBE together as a superset. You see this often in the embedded sets.

For example, if it is a pulling day you would be working back lever variations. The pairings are laid out in the book, but keep in mind that you should not be working on Planche directly until you have a 60s L sit. So, because L sit is a planche pre-requisite, L sit training is done when planche training is scheduled until you have a 60s L sit. At that point you would actually be ok performing tuck planche or whatever (assuming you have accomplished all planche pre-requisites, but seriously if you have the L sit you should have it all as far as planche goes).

I'm thinking of doing 3 FSP, 2 FBE each day of training. So, I'd just do #1-FSP, rest 30 seconds, start #1FBE x3, start #1or2-FSP, rest 30 seconds, start #2FBE, and be done for basic strength training?

I'm afraid I can make no sense of this, there is not enough information. Could you be more specific about sets, reps, exercise selection, etc?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mikko Saks
Mikko: I think the training cycle you have set up looks fairly good on the surface. It's hard to judge without seeing the whole thing, but how you eat around the workout will have a large effect on your progress as well, so make sure that is as good as you can get it without making your life hell!

Thanks for the reply, my friend!

I´ve been trying to eat as healthy as possible, with 2 grams of protein per kg (about 170grams per day), 1g of fat per kg (84grams), and the rest comes from carbs.

What about muscleups? I can only do five sets of one rep. Should i keep doing these on a weekly basis yet its kinda hard at the time? ´ve never managed to do 2 repetitions in a row. Or should i work on my L-pullups and come back to muscleups when i can do 2 or 3 more easily? Or do both every week? I had some issues on overtraining in the past, and now i´ve also been playing hockey almost everyday with my friends. Along with BJJ of course.

EDIT: and as a matter of fact when u suggested doing rows with hspu and dips with L-pullups - that is exactly how i used to do in my previous SSC for 4 weeks. I guess i was training too much other sports and not eating enough cause latter 2 weeks i felt like i was overtraining. So i guess its back to doing two dynamics per day, then :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

I think you may find that the eating was the big issue. You may also want to try and take every 3rd week and do half volume. SO, if you were doing 3 sets of 10 you may want to do 3 sets of 4-5. That way you don't work as hard and allow your body to recover while still maintaining intensity. Alternatively you could do just 1 set of 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aoa
So, it usually takes 8 to 12 weeks like coach Sommer describes in the book? As soon as you can tell it's become easy, you can test your new FSP moves and stick with them for a new cycle? Cool!

For example, if it is a pulling day you would be working back lever variations. The pairings are laid out in the book, but keep in mind that you should not be working on Planche directly until you have a 60s L sit. So, because L sit is a planche pre-requisite, L sit training is done when planche training is scheduled until you have a 60s L sit. At that point you would actually be ok performing tuck planche or whatever (assuming you have accomplished all planche pre-requisites, but seriously if you have the L sit you should have it all as far as planche goes).

Planche requires L-sit? are you sure? L-sits basically work abs and core, but I always thought planche requires MUCH more lower-back strength than abdominal strength

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cole Dano

Yes Slizz is 100% correct. 60 FX L-Sit is a prereq for any serious planche work, Coach Sommer lays it all out in the seminar.

Think about it though, if you can't do this are you really ready to pursue planche which is much more demanding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cu Fang

Slizz Right now I can hold adv tuck pl for 10s. But I can hardly perform adv frog stand do u have any idea?

And I think I agree with u, training PL with fingers back ward.

With my curent condition what do you suggest if I want to train pl fingers backward?

I tried doin pl finger back ward tuck but couldn't, I feel more stress in my bicep tendon,but mainly I cannot maintain my balance here,I tried frog stand fingers backward but got the same problem.

Couldn't maintain balance so in a second I would start to fall forward.

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman
Slizz Right now I can hold adv tuck pl for 10s. But I can hardly perform adv frog stand do u have any idea?

And I think I agree with u, training PL with fingers back ward.

With my curent condition what do you suggest if I want to train pl fingers backward?

I tried doin pl finger back ward tuck but couldn't, I feel more stress in my bicep tendon,but mainly I cannot maintain my balance here,I tried frog stand fingers backward but got the same problem.

Couldn't maintain balance so in a second I would start to fall forward.

Thank you

Yep, practice adv frog all the time for fun when you get bored, use tuck planche for your main plance work and hit adv tuck one day per week.

For fingers back you need to start with planche leans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cu Fang

Okey.....

Another question please...

Right no I can hold straddle BL for 18s and full BL for 5s.

But I never tried my max hold for tuck and adv tuck BL

Do you suggest me to build tuck and adv tuck 60s hold?

Yes I know u guys talk about this in earlier post,just want to make sure

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jhxkcd

How do you guys balance SSC training with WOD training, or should one be ignored in favor of the other up until a certain point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman
Okey.....

Another question please...

Right no I can hold straddle BL for 18s and full BL for 5s.

But I never tried my max hold for tuck and adv tuck BL

Do you suggest me to build tuck and adv tuck 60s hold?

Yes I know u guys talk about this in earlier post,just want to make sure

Thank you

I would keep doing your straddle work at the very least, and do a test for tuck. Chances are pretty good that you will breeze through tuck and probably advanced tuck as well. If you're at least getting 40-45s with advanced tuck I'd just do one 40s hold with adv tuck per workout day, maybe even on off days, and spend most of your time with straddle and full lay.

Are your palms facing down?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Derek

Hey everyone,

After reading BtGB cover to cover several times and reading a lot of the posts here i have set upon my getting back to gymnastics workout. This could get intense so bear with me and any feedback is appreciated!

My workouts would be on a two week rotating schedule of FBE's and FSP's. I have taken about a week to establish my hold times on FSP's and my max reps on FBE's so that I am doing the FBE's that will get me to 5x5. I am planning on doing this as either a 6 week SSC or an 8 week SSC.

Week 1

Mon: FBE exercises, done 5x5 (or 5x2 or 3 but never past 5x5 for the SSC) (all i.e. push-up variations, dips, HeSPU, FL rows, pull/chin-ups, body curls, ab work, back work, leg work)

Wed: FSP exercises, done as 60s (if capable) or 2x30s (all i.e. plank, reverse plank, hollow, arch, PB support, chin-up grip dead hang)

Fri: FBE exercises, (same as Mon.)

Week 2

Mon: FSP

Wed: FBE

Fri: FSP

Week 3 would follow week 1's template, week 4 would follow week 2 etc.

Off days would be handstand work and german hangs and every day but Sunday would be mobility and basic flexibility with Sunday being a dedicated 30 min. of a serious flexibility routine.

Well there it is! I would do this for one SSC, then take a week to re-evaluate and move onto harder variations if I am ready and the necessary hypertrophy has taken place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cu Fang
Okey.....

Another question please...

Right no I can hold straddle BL for 18s and full BL for 5s.

But I never tried my max hold for tuck and adv tuck BL

Do you suggest me to build tuck and adv tuck 60s hold?

Yes I know u guys talk about this in earlier post,just want to make sure

Thank you

I would keep doing your straddle work at the very least, and do a test for tuck. Chances are pretty good that you will breeze through tuck and probably advanced tuck as well. If you're at least getting 40-45s with advanced tuck I'd just do one 40s hold with adv tuck per workout day, maybe even on off days, and spend most of your time with straddle and full lay.

Are your palms facing down?

I've done my test...

With tuck BL

I manage to hold 60s...palm facing down during the 1st 45s,,,,then couldn't maintain that hold,I rotate to neutral grip 5s and the last 10s my palm is facing up.

With adv tuck BL I manage 35s palm facing down...I think I can go further if I rotate to neutral grip or palm up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
froggy

Two new questions about Steady State Cycles:

1) I'm supposed to keep doing the same SSC holds for the same length of time about two weeks after they become easy, right? This is the important question for me, but don't laugh. How do I know when a hold is easy? I could hold planche leans for 20 seconds pretty well, and even for 60 seconds, but the muscles vibrate a lot pretty quickly into a hold. Is it called "easy" when the muscles don't vibrate? I can do the holds for the time very reliably, but the muscles remind me they're working on it.

2) Why is the hold time 60 seconds? I can guess it is so that you can repeat your 50% hold time, but why not 90 seconds or two minutes?

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman
Two new questions about Steady State Cycles:

1) I'm supposed to keep doing the same SSC holds for the same length of time about two weeks after they become easy, right? This is the important question for me, but don't laugh. How do I know when a hold is easy? I could hold planche leans for 20 seconds pretty well, and even for 60 seconds, but the muscles vibrate a lot pretty quickly into a hold. Is it called "easy" when the muscles don't vibrate? I can do the holds for the time very reliably, but the muscles remind me they're working on it.

2) Why is the hold time 60 seconds? I can guess it is so that you can repeat your 50% hold time, but why not 90 seconds or two minutes?

Thanks!

1) Sort of. Easy is when you no longer notice forward progress. For a long time, you will notice consistent forward progress.

2) 60s is based on the slower twitch motor groups being what support you up through advanced tuck variations. This ensures structural stability and should indicate a sufficient surplus of both connective tissue integrity and muscular strength to safely move on to the next. Realistically, for bigger people 40-50s is more reasonable when working planche but forward steps also have to be taken in much smaller increments. This is quite difficult all by itself in some positions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nilan
It is not reasonable, practical nor effective for you to be training four different FSP each day. My recommendation is to choose the main four and focus on those.

For the FBE, choose a specific FBE from a particular category (pulling, pressing etc) that you would most like to improve during the SSC and focus your primary efforts there. You may still train the other FBE from that particular category, but your testing will be focused on that particular movement.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Hello all :) ,

I am quite new here and have been reading alot. But I do not quite know what are the main for FBE. So I would just like to know what are the main four FBE? If I were to summon a guess, I would say L-sit, BL, FL and PL?

And also, according to our Coach, I would be better served if I split the 4 FBE on 4 different training days?

eg. Mon- L sit, working up to 60s

Tue- BL, " "

Fri- FL," "

Sat-PL, " "

Thanks one and all :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blairbob

main FBE. Stuff like dip, pushup, handstand pushup. Or Pullup, horizontal pullup/row, inverted pullup/body curl. Hanging Leg Lifts, Reverse leg lifts, Glute Ham raises, back extensions, situps, V-ups, lying leg lifts. Single Leg Squat variants, air/deck squats.

Working them only once per week is going to progress SLOW.

L work is something you can do just about everyday. I would work up to it and start working these twice per week. So:

M/F Tu/Sa

So HS every day or twice a week like L's. BL/FL/PL 2x/week. Eventually ramping towards 3 or 4x/week. You can work Wall HS for time one day, HS presses the other.

L-sit, HS, PL, FL, BL are all considered FundamentalStaticPositions not FullBodyExercises.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nilan
main FBE. Stuff like dip, pushup, handstand pushup. Or Pullup, horizontal pullup/row, inverted pullup/body curl. Hanging Leg Lifts, Reverse leg lifts, Glute Ham raises, back extensions, situps, V-ups, lying leg lifts. Single Leg Squat variants, air/deck squats.

Working them only once per week is going to progress SLOW.

L work is something you can do just about everyday. I would work up to it and start working these twice per week. So:

M/F Tu/Sa

So HS every day or twice a week like L's. BL/FL/PL 2x/week. Eventually ramping towards 3 or 4x/week. You can work Wall HS for time one day, HS presses the other.

L-sit, HS, PL, FL, BL are all considered FundamentalStaticPositions not FullBodyExercises.

Heyi many thanks for your reply Blairbob! :) It's a real privilege to have a senior member like you answer my post :D

Thank you for clarifying all that constitute FSP.

Much gratitude for also stating that L-sit work and HS can be done everyday 8) I am going to try and build upto daily HS at least. I have a problem doing fully erect wall HS, an issue which I have asked in the Handstand section of the forum too.

I think after wrist warmup, I could easily practice L-sit and HS in the evening, in addition to working them during the main workout.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blairbob

Yeah, L and HS can be done pretty often but they do have their limits. With HS, it tends to be wrists, sometimes shoulders or elbows. With L, mainly your hip flexors or abs just get fried.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this