Flyes pushups

[jutajata]

The last 4 years i was having a very hard time trying to keep locked elbows during straddle planche. Ive tried to strengthen every part of the back, shoulder and still my elbows didnt locked fully.

Then in july of last year i saw a video of Jordan Jovtchev doing flyes pushups in rings and saying that this pushups increase the elbow and biceps strength for straight arm exercises especially for maltese, then i think if helps for maltese may help for planche and so i have nothing to lose doing this exercise in a regular basis so i included them in my weekly routine doing 3x10rep 2 times per week.

After 3 months of constant effort on strengthening my elbows(the pain becomes my friend ) i was able to hold a locked elbow straddle planche with very less effort then my bent arm straddle planche(something over my head before this training), so this post serves as a tip for those who are feeling difficult to lock elbows in the planche especially if you have long arms.

The flyes pushups consists in doing pushups with elbows straight so you move the hands to the side, can be done in rings or with some dumbell on floor i guess (never tried)

[Richard Duelley]

These are great and Coach had them in a WOD a few days back. I, however, am weak and need to do them from my knees

[jl5555]

Great stuff Arthur! I'd be kissing the mat if I tried that...

Did you do this year's Fest Yoga? Did you perform again? Any vids?

[jutajata]

Did you do this year's Fest Yoga? Did you perform again? Any vids?

Ill do in May 26 a performance here in south Brazil, will upload asap to youtube, hope the one arm handstand get solid now

Ive posted a video of a friend of mine doing a performance here in Brazil last weekend.

Heres the link

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3590

[jutajata]

I'd be kissing the mat if I tried that...

You can do with knees on floor to decrease the intensity.

[Jason Stein]

Juta,

Flys look good, mate.

Interestingly, I find strength is not the issue ... the elbow joints, though...

Be careful.

best,

j

[jutajata]

Juta,

Flys look good, mate.

Interestingly, I find strength is not the issue ... the elbow joints, though...

Be careful.

best,

j

The pic is from Jordan Jovtchev not me.

Can you elaborate more about the elbow joint?

Best regards.

[Razz]

The flyes put a lot of stress on the elbow joint just like most straight arm exercises.

[Cole Dano]

I think that's why jutajata is on to something using the fly as a means to get comfortable with straight arm planche work. I think doing flys there is a bit more control over the elbow than in straddle planche or even advanced tuck, where the weight of the body sends such strong signal to the elbows to bend for self preservation. Using a knee at first gives allot of room to micro adjust the load.

I'm definitely going to add this to the toolbox, knees first is all i could muster today, but time and faith.....

[Razz]

Yes it's a good elbow prep exercise, that's also why coach put it in the wod

[Jason Stein]

The pic is from Jordan Jovtchev not me.

And I thought, 'That guy's really put on some weight since his video."

My experience with the flies has been I seem to have the awareness and muscular ability to maintain a straight-body contraction with the arms out, for maybe 7-8 seconds.

However the next day I felt sensation in my biceps tendon and the gristle in my elbows. At this point, connective tissue sensation (even if not pain) is a clear sign to back off.

Coach Sommer also prescribes 15 second holds (implied, of courses, pain free). I reckon a mellower approach is always better with gymnastics, so I don't mind 6 or 8 weeks of a supported position.

I'm finding if for me at least if I don't do the work now it comes back to bite me later.

Also, if you have a foam roller/support/small box, you can put it just under your knees, and increase intensity of the flies by rolling it back toward your feet a little bit each time your practice them.

best,

j

[Coach Sommer]

... Coach Sommer also prescribes 15 second holds (implied, of courses, pain free). I reckon a mellower approach is always better with gymnastics, so I don't mind 6 or 8 weeks of a supported position ...

The degree of intensity for straight-arm flys performed from the knees can be further mitigated by also allowing the hips to pike as necessary until you find a reasonable level of resistance.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

The pic is from Jordan Jovtchev not me.

And I thought, 'That guy's really put on some weight since his video."

My experience with the flies has been I seem to have the awareness and muscular ability to maintain a straight-body contraction with the arms out, for maybe 7-8 seconds.

However the next day I felt sensation in my biceps tendon and the gristle in my elbows. At this point, connective tissue sensation (even if not pain) is a clear sign to back off.

Coach Sommer also prescribes 15 second holds (implied, of courses, pain free). I reckon a mellower approach is always better with gymnastics, so I don't mind 6 or 8 weeks of a supported position.

I'm finding if for me at least if I don't do the work now it comes back to bite me later.

Also, if you have a foam roller/support/small box, you can put it just under your knees, and increase intensity of the flies by rolling it back toward your feet a little bit each time your practice them.

best,

j

The elbow sensation isn't surprising if you're pushing yourself like that! Work at 3-4 seconds for a while and add slowly, or do them on your knees for longer, but still not maximal time in that position. Sub-maximal work really does the trick for joint conditioning, I am finding.

[Jason Stein]

Slizzard,

My take on the 15-second prescription is to find a variation that is sub-maximal for 15 seconds, and that will consequently prep the joints. If you can't hold a variation for 15 seconds, you are prematurely progressing.

The variation may be quite a modification from what you are used to performing for 3-4 seconds.

I was glancing at Jim BeastSkills' training log the other day. The guy is able to perform an iron cross (among other skills), I believe for a couple seconds. His training log, though, is littered with notes on elbow pain and icing his elbows. I'm not interested in finding out the hard way that I've exceeded my elbow joints by jumping ahead.

best,

jason

[Joshua Naterman]

Yea, I agree. That's the rule I'm following, and it's working amazingly well! I'm back to being able to do perfect flat tuck planche push ups on p-bars, and all I've been doing is assisted tuck/flat tuck planche work on the floor. It's amazing!

Sucks for Jim's elbows, he should consider being smarter about his training lol!

[Jason Stein]

My impression of Jim is that he's a hard worker and well-versed in different methods of training. He's not scared to be patient and try out lots of things. Though he might've saved himself joint pain if he'd tapped into some gymnastics training principles.

Where does a guy like Jim, in his 20's, go for iron cross/maltese training? If he does find a gymnastic gym, odds are he'll find some coach, an ex-Soviet Bloc gymnast, say, who knows how to spot and train adolescent and pre-teen boys, but has no idea how to train a guy in his 20's or 30's.

Or worse, the coach would see how strong Jim is, and in 3 months destroy his elbows, shoulders, and wrists.

Even the initial warm-up stretching sequences (pike, straddle, bridge) done during the adult gymnastic classes that I've taken are designed for adolescents. They would totally destroy the people I see in an average yoga class, people in their 30's or 40's.

Shame that Coach Sommer's site and book weren't around when Jim was doing his cross training, and the internet is no substitute for an experienced coach telling you, "Hey guy, let's just stick with support holds for a few weeks. Trust me."

[Sternford]

Just tried these for the first time. Accidentally went too far down. Luckily my chin was there to break my fall.

[braindx]

Jim got his elbow tendonitis from doing OAC work before his elbows were prepared for it. Stuck around for a while after that when he went for cross stuff.

If he hasn't done it in a while it's probably went away, but yes the necessary prep work is definitely important. He definitely knows more about it now, and if he doesn't I can just tell him as well. We'll see... I don't know if he's been training cross at all for a while. I know he working on a lot of other stuff.

[cccp22]

... Coach Sommer also prescribes 15 second holds (implied, of courses, pain free). I reckon a mellower approach is always better with gymnastics, so I don't mind 6 or 8 weeks of a supported position ...

The degree of intensity for straight-arm flys performed from the knees can be further mitigated by also allowing the hips to pike as necessary until you find a reasonable level of resistance.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

************ What about letting you arms go further and further out as one progresses?

Brandon Green

[Sternford]

If you can't do it the way in the video, is it better to shorten the lever by going on your knees or is it better to not go down as far?

[Coach Sommer]

If you can't do it the way in the video, is it better to shorten the lever by going on your knees or is it better to not go down as far?

It is better to first shorten the lever from the knees. This will allow you to decrease the intensity of the movement while still preserving the full range of motion. However if that is still does not sufficiently lessen the intensity, then restrict the ROM as necessary.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer