Anyone here do any kind of grip training?

[Andy Desak 36466]

Grip work is a whole world unto itself... for example the Captains of Crush grippers I mentioned earlier. Their #4 gripper which takes 365 pounds of pressure to close has only been close by 5 (I think) people on the planet despite it existing for over 25 years. The dedication to closing that gripper is insane... and even if you have the drive chances are you will never do it.
Some of the few that have had built custom rigs and equipment just to aid in the training for this feat.

Then there is breaking box wrenches with the bare hands.... rolling frying pans... nail bending... so many things.

Another example would be card tearing... I was pretty happy with myself when I ripped my first deck last year... took me almost a minute.
Then you have freaks like John Brookfield that can tear ONE HUNDRED decks in just double that time.

 

 

I'm in no way and elite grip person but I have done many different things with it. Just one of those odd things I like to do... wish I devoted even more time to it.

[Andy Desak 36466]

And since I'm now in a hand/forearm strength mood..... here is one more John Brookfield video... just in case you ever have a 9/16" steel rod 20 feet long that you need to Fedex... well, now you will know how

 

[Suzanna McGee]

On February 26, 2017 at 5:46 AM, Andy Desak 36466 said:

start doing some hangs. Reach as high as you can, grab on tight, bend your knees and hang. Be sure to reverse your grip. If hangs are too difficult at first, set your grip and just lean back into a pseudo hang with your feet on the ground... then try to walk your hands down the rope slowly... as in release your top hand briefly and regrip below the other... repeat and your walk your hands down the rope. Your body will get more and more horizontal as you do this and the difficulty will increase... then before it gets too hard start walking back up.... your feet will assist. You can do this for reps.

This is grrrrrrreat, Andy, thank you. I think this one will help a lot. I am still way way far from any rope climbing (I've been on PE2 for a while, grrrr) but, I am also learning pole fitness. I need that grip for my pole. So what you wrote is perfectly specific for the pole, I can do all what you suggested. In a way it's harder on the pole, because it is also slippery (chrome)… I like the progression of walking myself down and then up, that will develop also my one-hand grip on the pole.

[Nicolas Lukas]

I do one arm fat grip (2 inches) dead hangs for 30 seconds at a bodyweight of 85 kg (+15 kg added weight per arm, so 100 kg in total). That's all I do for my grip strength directly.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Nicolas Lukas

[Ronnicky Roy]

I would be shocked if GST was not enough for crushing grip strength. I remember just doing thick bar hangs and thick bar pullups. My crushing grip specifically exploded. The only grip I don't feel trained specifically with GST is pinch grip, because that is largely thumb strength and the surrounding musculature. Doing farmers walks/carry with something flat but heavy will train that. I used to carry heavy stones in each hand in my back yard. I've never found anything that trained pinch grip to the same extent as that. A bit taxing on the skin tho. The heavier the stones the more you feel like you might tear the skin off your hands. Even if your muscle and bones can handle it.

[Ronnicky Roy]

Thicker grips accomplish the same goal as increasing weight. That's why rockclimbing does so much for grip strength. It's endurance and often times open grip holds along with finger strength specific hangs.

[Andy Desak 36466]

16 minutes ago, Ronnicky Roy said:

I would be shocked if GST was not enough for crushing grip strength. I remember just doing thick bar hangs and thick bar pullups. My crushing grip specifically exploded. The only grip I don't feel trained specifically with GST is pinch grip, because that is largely thumb strength and the surrounding musculature. Doing farmers walks/carry with something flat but heavy will train that. I used to carry heavy stones in each hand in my back yard. I've never found anything that trained pinch grip to the same extent as that. A bit taxing on the skin tho. The heavier the stones the more you feel like you might tear the skin off your hands. Even if your muscle and bones can handle it.

Thick bar hangs and pullups aren't going to give you crushing grip strength. They are going to make your grip strong in one stationery position. When you are closing a gripper for example you are starting wide and crushing your hand together until you have a fist. The last inch is truly the hardest as everyone is weakest at that point. If your goal is to close a #3 COC gripper you can do gymnastics/weightlifting training.... farmers and thick bar work your whole life are chances are you never going to close it. I've trained for it and haven't done it... yet. I've had it within literally 1/4" and couldn't finish it. So there is a big difference. But that is something you have to actually want to accomplish and be willing to put a lot of time into... this is a bodyweight training forum and most people here probably don't care about that kind of goal.

I have a 2" bar that I occasionally do pullups from. I have a set of farmers bars with a 2" grip as well as doing them with dumbbells. Doesn't help with my crushing strength. Actually have a piece of 3" round stock about 55" long... weighs about 75#. Used to do a lot of curl and press with it.... 3" makes a light weight a lot tougher but once again... not much for crushing strength... and least not at a tight level.

[Ronnicky Roy]

10 minutes ago, Andy Desak 36466 said:

Thick bar hangs and pullups aren't going to give you crushing grip strength. They are going to make your grip strong in one stationery position. When you are closing a gripper for example you are starting wide and crushing your hand together until you have a fist. The last inch is truly the hardest as everyone is weakest at that point. If your goal is to close a #3 COC gripper you can do gymnastics/weightlifting training.... farmers and thick bar work your whole life are chances are you never going to close it. I've trained for it and haven't done it... yet. I've had it within literally 1/4" and couldn't finish it. So there is a big difference. But that is something you have to actually want to accomplish and be willing to put a lot of time into... this is a bodyweight training forum and most people here probably don't care about that kind of goal.

I have a 2" bar that I occasionally do pullups from. I have a set of farmers bars with a 2" grip as well as doing them with dumbbells. Doesn't help with my crushing strength.

Slight difference for my thick bar is that mine was towel wrapped. So I was crushing the towel and pushing through something rather than a purely isometric hold, but I think I do see what you're saying. You're stating that it only trains open hand to closing to about 1", while specific crush training trains to close to 0 or .1111"? If i'm understanding you correctly.

Edit:

Using something that gives way a bit, but is still thick so you are fighting to crush it closed. Like I'd wrap a one inch bar to a thickness of 2-3" and crush my hands closed around the thickened bar.

[Andy Desak 36466]

Ronnicky... yeah, depending on your hand size you could be closing close to a fist.

Here is a short video from IronMind talking about their grippers. And a link to a video with Magnus Samuelsson closing a #4. While watching someone close a gripper may not be as exciting as someone doing a front lever or a planche, keep in mind that in the 23 years its existed only 5 men on the planet have closed #4. The crushing strength is just insane... I have it and can barely move it.

Obviously you will develop great grip strength with GST or farmers and things like that... the #3 and 4 grippers are just for those looking to join the ranks of the elite in grip strength... most people will never even close a #2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMPsIeBk81w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfRfNJnNtok&t=200s

 

[Ronnicky Roy]

That is freakishly impressive hand strength 

[Suzanna McGee]

@Andy Desak 36466, you have experience in all those COCs… After reading all your posts, I am thinking about getting myself one. Thinking about the "Trainer" version (100 lbs). It's two steps bellow No. 1 (140 lbs). Do you possibly have an experience or a thought if it could be ok for me? I need to get my grips super strong (so obsessed about being able to hang/spin on the pole on one arm). Just so you would see my current grip strength/weakness: I weight 160 lbs and if I hang on a stall bar rung on one arm, I can only hang for maybe 6–10 seconds…  Or shall I get No. 1 and struggle through in the beginning until I can close it eventually one day? Thank you! 

[Andy Desak 36466]

Hey Suzanna, I have a trainer. Its the lightest one I have. While I just use it for warm ups or repping out it may be a little harder than you expect and you may not actually be able to close it. I'd get the 80# sport gripper and the trainer for starters. You definitely want one your can fully close (until the handles touch) as that last half inch will be the hardest part. If you start with one you can't close and don't get to properly work that full range of motion that will hinder your progress and could easily discourage you.

Let me know if you get them and I can tell you a few different ways to work with them...
By the way if you order from Amazon you can get them there for the same price as IronMind.

Good luck!! Let me know...

Here's a pic of my collection

[Suzanna McGee]

@Andy Desak 36466 aww look at you, you little hamster   Your CoC collection is like my myofascial release tools collection, I think I have more than 30 different rollers, balls and other tools… thank you for your tip. I was already looking on Amazon, and will get it from there. I have free one day shipping (I am impatient in some things, ha ha). I will definitely let you know when I get it, ok? Curious what can be done with it! Thanks again!

[Suzanna McGee]

@Andy Desak 36466, I got my CoC yesterday (I love the Amazon One Day shipping  ). I ordered only the Trainer 100# just to see how it feels. I actually can squeeze it to being fully closed (it's not easy, but it's closed). Surprisingly, even with my non dominant (left) hand. I was curious what you suggest regarding the sets and reps. It didn't come with any instructions, I will go and google something, but because you have serious experience, I was thinking  that I would listen to you first  I understand that to improve the strength fast, it is going to be lower reps and not too often?

[Andy Desak 36466]

Yeah Amazon prime rocks... I wasted so much money in the last 13 years thanks to them

First of all... it sounds like closing the trainer for you is almost a max effort.
Also to be sure when you close it... is it totally unassisted? As in the closing hand does not come in to contact with your body at all. You should be able to close without any contact.

But just like any other training you are going to want to warm up. I'd get a lighter gripper that you can close 8-10 times for a couple sets to warm up. You can do full reps or short ones (not letting it fully open)... vary the speed if you like... get the blood flowing.
At the moment the grippers aren't a main focus for me so I am doing higher reps. My working sets are 3-4 sets of 8 reps (each hand of course). Then maybe a burnout set with a lighter gripper.
But if I was really shooting for max strength you can get away with sets of 3-5

One variation you can do is static holds... close a gripper for time... if you want to really make sure it is staying fully closed... because you can have slight pulses opening and closing ever so slightly and not realize it. Get a sheet of paper or a credit card and squeeze it in the gripper... if it falls out you opened slightly.

Some things you can do when you are working a gripper that you can't quite close yet is cheat it closed and do negatives. Use your non working hand to help close it all the way and fight it with your working hand letting it slowly open. You won't need a lot of reps when doing this as it can be quite taxing.

Another more extreme method you can do with a gripper you can close. You can get a strap that you can squeeze between the handles and hang a small weight and hold for time.

I wouldn't train with these more than twice a week and they can beat down the tendons if you over do it. The grippers are one of those things where you can simply do anywhere and this can make it easy (especially in the beginning) to get a little over zealous. Next thing you know you'll be driving with a gripper in your hand and taking them to the bathroom! ... actually I've a lot of my COC training while driving ....

So realistically you should have at least 3 grippers.
Your warm up gripper.
Your working gripper that you are doing your sets with... 3-5 or 8-10 for example
Your goal gripper.... one you can't close. This would be the one you would do the cheat reps with for example or max efforts.
For me personally if I'm squeezing a gripper I want the handles to touch regardless if I can do it or not... so if I'm going to fail on a close then I'll finish it off by cheating it shut.

One thing you are going to have to learn is setting the gripper in your hand to start. This will actually take some practice so the handle doesn't slide to far down your palm towards your wrist. People with smaller hands will have more of an issue with this.

Don't forget to work the extensors as well... use the bands or the putty or that shirt trick that someone else mentioned.

Hopefully this will get you started :-) Let me know you have any other questions and if I think of anything else I'll send it up.

.....next step.... pinch grip exercises

[Suzanna McGee]

@Andy Desak 36466, this is great, thank you so much! I saved your tips so I have them always handy… Now, reading all your words, I tried again and I see when my hand doesn't touch my body, I cannot fully close it. I think I have about 1 cm (or about a half inch) left. So I guess this gripper could be my "where I want to be" gripper?

Or also…. 

I have a bunch of different gripper devices (those little thick silicone rings exercisers) that I could use for my warm up for reps. Then for my strength, I could use this Trainer (and not fully close it), and then I could use the negatives and isometric holds as you describe. And hopefully in not too long I will be able to squeeze this one.

If this strategy works, then I buy a new "goal gripper" in the future, and if it doesn't, then I keep this one as a goal gripper and buy myself the Sport 80#… I'll try first, though. For the extensors, I always have that special rubber thinking in my pockets and purses

I am going to do it on Tue/Thu so my hands are rested/recovered by Sunday when I have my pole class.

Curious to see if I can, by the end of March, do the one-handed spin on the pole thanks to my new grip strength  

[Michel Hendrickson]

On 26-2-2017 at 6:13 PM, Andy Desak 36466 said:

Grip work is a whole world unto itself... for example the Captains of Crush grippers I mentioned earlier. Their #4 gripper which takes 365 pounds of pressure to close has only been close by 5 (I think) people on the planet despite it existing for over 25 years. The dedication to closing that gripper is insane... and even if you have the drive chances are you will never do it.
Some of the few that have had built custom rigs and equipment just to aid in the training for this feat.

Then there is breaking box wrenches with the bare hands.... rolling frying pans... nail bending... so many things.

Another example would be card tearing... I was pretty happy with myself when I ripped my first deck last year... took me almost a minute.
Then you have freaks like John Brookfield that can tear ONE HUNDRED decks in just double that time.

 

 

I'm in no way and elite grip person but I have done many different things with it. Just one of those odd things I like to do... wish I devoted even more time to it.

Talk about the waste this guy is producing... plus buying new card decks all the time... Shopkeeper, I need 100 packs please!

[Andy Desak 36466]

3 hours ago, Michel Hendrickson said:

Talk about the waste this guy is producing... plus buying new card decks all the time... Shopkeeper, I need 100 packs please!

What are you a tree hugger, LOL.

He is on tv ripping cards in half... he's written books and produced DVD's. He literally has the strongest hands on the planet. I'm sure he can afford the cards.
Me personally... I've bought cases of 100 used casino cards on ebay for quite a cheap price.

[Michel Hendrickson]

3 minutes ago, Andy Desak 36466 said:

What are you a tree hugger, LOL.

He is on tv ripping cards in half... he's written books and produced DVD's. He literally has the strongest hands on the planet. I'm sure he can afford the cards.
Me personally... I've bought cases of 100 used casino cards on ebay for quite a cheap price.

Sounds like you got triggered or something mate. But this whole thing about nail bending and card tearing sounds wasteful to me. Both from an ecological view and an economical view.

[Nathan Harrington]

I have found active and dead one arm hangs helpful to improve my grip strength. I found it in an old Ido Portal challenge and actually enjoyed the task. Shoot for alternating hands hanging on the bar or rings without coming down alternate Right and Left, 30sec, 20 sec, 10 seconds. I did it as a finishing exercise on some upper body days. Improvement will come quickly, and it has helped with some carryover to Foundations as well.

[Andy Desak 36466]

3 hours ago, Michel Hendrickson said:

Sounds like you got triggered or something mate. But this whole thing about nail bending and card tearing sounds wasteful to me. Both from an ecological view and an economical view.

Triggered? No... just amused that out of all the ridiculously amazing things this guy is capable (some of which less than 10 people on the planet can do)... your only comments are negative... so why did you even comment... were YOU triggered? Anyway... not going to argue about it. I tore my first deck of cards about a year ago... I was quite proud of that feat of strength especially when as far as I know I only know one other person personally that can do it... try to do a half deck and see if you can even manage that. As for wastefulness... out of the hundreds of decks I've mangled I've never once gone out and purchased and ruined a new deck... I play a fair amount of cards and use them as they retire and like I mentioned previously I've acquired used casino cards.

[Andy Desak 36466]

3 hours ago, Nathan Harrington said:

I have found active and dead one arm hangs helpful to improve my grip strength. I found it in an old Ido Portal challenge and actually enjoyed the task. Shoot for alternating hands hanging on the bar or rings without coming down alternate Right and Left, 30sec, 20 sec, 10 seconds. I did it as a finishing exercise on some upper body days. Improvement will come quickly, and it has helped with some carryover to Foundations as well.

I do those sorts of things... the other things I mention in this thread are just a different kind of hand and grip strength. No amount of hanging or rope climbing strength is going to transfer to nail bending, card tearing, rolling a frying pan thin enough to pass through a wrist watch, etc. Just another type of training I though others may be interested in or fascinated by.

[Michel Hendrickson]

20 hours ago, Andy Desak 36466 said:

Triggered? No... just amused that out of all the ridiculously amazing things this guy is capable (some of which less than 10 people on the planet can do)... your only comments are negative... so why did you even comment... were YOU triggered? Anyway... not going to argue about it. I tore my first deck of cards about a year ago... I was quite proud of that feat of strength especially when as far as I know I only know one other person personally that can do it... try to do a half deck and see if you can even manage that. As for wastefulness... out of the hundreds of decks I've mangled I've never once gone out and purchased and ruined a new deck... I play a fair amount of cards and use them as they retire and like I mentioned previously I've acquired used casino cards.

Good. It just struck me as awkward/silly when I imagined this John Brookfield going to the shop buying hundreds of new decks of cards every week for his training.

But lets get back to topic now, because I have a question for you about the grip training. Personally, I struggle with grip training because my regular weightlifting and calisthenics workout already tax my grip a lot. So I don't really see how I could do specific grip exercises and still expect it to recover. Does that mean I should drop some things from the rest of my training and adding specific grip exercises to let my grip catch up, or keep training the way I do, meaning that I might need to resort to using straps at some point?

In fact I already have golfers elbow, but my back muscles and everything else is feeling strong and good.

[Andy Desak 36466]

5 hours ago, Michel Hendrickson said:

Good. It just struck me as awkward/silly when I imagined this John Brookfield going to the shop buying hundreds of new decks of cards every week for his training.

But lets get back to topic now, because I have a question for you about the grip training. Personally, I struggle with grip training because my regular weightlifting and calisthenics workout already tax my grip a lot. So I don't really see how I could do specific grip exercises and still expect it to recover. Does that mean I should drop some things from the rest of my training and adding specific grip exercises to let my grip catch up, or keep training the way I do, meaning that I might need to resort to using straps at some point?

In fact I already have golfers elbow, but my back muscles and everything else is feeling strong and good.

Well, for starters training the grip with grippers, plate gripping is going to be a little different than calisthenics/gymnastics training. And things like card tearing and nail bending are gonna be a different kind of hand strength and also forearm and wrist strength. Actually I would say that gymnastics/calisthenics is building more grip endurance than strength. I'm sure most people here can hang from a bar with one hand for at least a couple seconds...hanging for a minute isn't building strength its building endurance. Just like doing a 100's of situps isn't building real strength but more endurance... for real core strength you need exercises like L-sites, hanging leg lifts, dragon flags, standing ab wheel, etc.

Same applies to grip....doing heavy plate holds to build thumb strength or grippers for crushing strength, lifting a 2" bar with 150# hanging from it. These are what is going to build sick grip strength.

You really should be able to incorporate all things without over training. You don't have to do the grip training excessively to get strong at it... in fact it would probably be counter productive. When I was training to do the deck tear I was only tearing cards one day a week and probably only 10 minutes at a time. Grippers I wouldn't do more than 2-3 times a week depending on intensity... many times I only do it once a week.  One thing I have noticed ... at least for me... If I don't consistently train or maintain a specific strength like the cards or grippers then the strength can disappear quickly... at least on the high end.

I like these kinds of training because I just like to do things most other people don't for one.... and also with the grippers for example you can really gauge your progress...you don't really know how much strength you're gaining from hanging... unless maybe you're doing weighted hangs... as for the grippers most people will never close a number 2 COC gripper without training them specifically. My goal is a #3 which I've had at about 3/16 to a 1/4". But as you're getting stronger with the grippers you can see your progress... more reps... closer to a full close on your target gripper.
The key is that you have to be consistent... which unfortunately for me lately I haven't been with my grip training... had a huge project going on these last few months and while I'm not really missing any training it is being cut much shorter than I'd like.... almost done though.

Onto a more important note... your golfers elbow... you may want to rehab that first... grippers/cards/pinch gripping etc... none of these are going to be your friend when it comes to golfers elbow.

Same goes for the wrist exercises many people do here like first knuckle pushups and fingertip pushups.... these can seriously agitate the elbow if doing excessively while injured. Even regular pullups and things of that nature... so I would start by looking into that.

Is there any specific grip training you are interested in... like one that you would have a goal to achieve?

Hope this all made sense... I was typing quick as I have to head out... till later...

[Michel Hendrickson]

@Andy Desak 36466

I don't really have a goal like grippers or tearing cards, or rolling frying pans, haha. It's just that my grip is the weakest part of my body so I'd like to improve it (and grip endurance) to become stronger overall. When I do deadlifts or hanging leg raises for example, it is always my grip that gives out before any of the other muscle groups do. I actually got my golfers elbow from doing additional grip exercises at the end of the workout. Now I can't do any exercises that involve gripping something and pulling or holding because it hurts.

At this point I"m wondering what to do when my injury is healed. Stop doing deadlifts and work on specific grip exercises? Or get straps for my deadlifting? Other solution possibly?

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Michel Hendrickson