Running for the Planche

[Hayden.M.]

hi,

i was woundering if it would benefit my planche training by doing aerobic/anaerobic running a day a week or something? I'll explain:

i know that this type of running (e.g. 10 minutes at quite a high enough intensity to be out of breath at the end) would train the efficiency of the circulatory system and the respiratory system, so when attempting to hold any planche progression for 60 seconds, i classify this as strength endurance, which in my opinion requires good cardio-respiratory endurance.

if i did this, would i be wasting my time or would it benefit my planche training because of the reasons above?

any replies greatly appreciated,

Thanks

[Guest Ido Portal]

This is a perfect example of somebody who has been reading too much wikipedia.

No, running will not help your planche work, there are more effective ways to improve the planche - miniature golf for example.

Ido.

[Hayden.M.]

no this isnt the perfect example of someone who reads too much wikipedia actually.

all i had was a theory because in my head it made sense. i didnt intend to disrespect you so why make jokes? i didnt come looking for an argument, just a genuine answer because i thought that it just might work, or just might help in some small way. obviously i was wrong.

everybody has theories and doubts at times.

[Guest Ido Portal]

I am sorry, Haiden, it was just a joke. I am sure with enough reading you would understand why this is funny.

Nailing the right energy system is not enough to induce improvement in a specific exercise. Also, you did not nail the right energy system with your proposed 10 min running... This will not help you in your quest for the planche.

Ido.

[Richard Duelley]

Mini golf. . . Ido you are a lol machine The planche is a fairly specific movement, to get good at you just have to do more planche (and blacklevers)!

[Neal Winkler]

We need a sticky filled with links on the basics of S&C.

[Hayden.M.]

ok it was a funny joke, and i respect ido for his knowledge, i do not intend to disrespect anyone on the forum. its just that i was excited, thinking that i had come up with a new idea or something, and i was just looking for any objective opinions.

i love the planche, a lot, its very impresive, so i am trying to do everything i can to develope it as i am only in the earlier stages.

thanks for your replies

[Hayden.M.]

We need a sticky filled with links on the basics of S&C.

S&C ? whats this?

[Blairbob]

S&C = Strength & Conditioning.

[Neal Winkler]

ok it was a funny joke, and i respect ido for his knowledge, i do not intend to disrespect anyone on the forum. its just that i was excited, thinking that i had come up with a new idea or something, and i was just looking for any objective opinions.

i love the planche, a lot, its very impresive, so i am trying to do everything i can to develope it as i am only in the earlier stages.

thanks for your replies

Hayden,

No disrespect, but it's obvious that you lack a basic understanding of human physiology and how it translates to effective S&C. With this and the fact that you are 18 years of age, there is no chance that you have stumbled upon any original insights.

My advice to you is to study the methods of those individuals who have come before, master those methods, and then maybe one day in the future you will have a unique contribution to add.

[Hayden.M.]

well ive been studying sport and exercise for a wile now (few years haha), and i think ive come up with more information to make my argument stronger

to begin with, ill stop refering to running to increase planche hold, etc. time. instead i was thinking, if a person were to hold a planche, back lever, front lever, at whatever progression for a long period of time (around 30 seconds or more) then wouldnt ATP-PC stores have run out by then and we would now by using the lactate energy system? also, as we use this energy system, wouldnt we by using fast oxidative glycolytic muscle fibres to maintain the hold? so my question now is, wouldnt doing appropriate training (apart from the specifics such as the planche itself, or whatever other training) to tax this energy system and these muscle fibre types be beneficial towards the planche, e.g. 400 metre sprints?

ive also thought, since we may be holding a progression for a long period of time (you know, the usual 30 seconds or more) wouldnt we be producing lactic acid as a by product of this? so, if we increased our VO2 max, wouldnt this also contribute to being able to hold the position longer as we may be able to delay the onset of blood lactate accumulation, and thus, prevent at least some of the cause of muscle fatigue during the later stages of the hold?

thanks for reading,

Hayden

[Seiji]

Muscular Endurance Cardiovascular Endurance

You probably know this, but I feel like sharing anyways. Cardio, like you said, improves your body's efficiency to get oxygen + hormones here and there, as well as get rid of CO2, waste products, etc.

Muscular Endurance is basically a single muscle's ability to continue doing something for a long time. (you've heard of the fiber types?) If you have super enduring calves, that doesn't mean you would be able to hold something for a long time in your shoulders (not comparing to running, just examples). Pavel Tsatsouline talks about irradiation or something like that where, when one muscle is activated, the ones right next to it activate to assist the motion, but to a lesser degree. Can you flex your bicep and tricep without flexing your shoulders and forearms? It's hard. To cut out what I just said, running basically will do nothing for your arm strength or endurance. Unless you decide to pick up power walking

ADD:

In all actuality, I probably would have believed whatever you're talking about right now before a joined this forum, but I've really learned a lot here. My only real experience is my Anatomy and Physiology class in 10th grade and my weightlifting class this year. I don't mean to damage anything here, but can I say this: I just don't give a shit any more. Knowing all this chemical mumbo jumbo hasn't helped me one bit; and unless you're getting a career in it or want to sound really smart, there's no need to know it. I don't want to sound arrogant, because probably less than a month or two ago I was trying to find side passages to my goals (look at the first pages of my workout log) the same way you're doing in this topic. My advice is to just do it. Have fun though, try and figure out new ways that'll help if you're bored with working on progressions. Push ups, reverse ab wheel roll outs (roll ins? ), stuff like that.

Maybe I'm just pissy since I can't train planche because I have bicep tendonitis, though. XD All I can do are l sit variations and handstands really.

[AlexX]

Strength, Endurance, Balance are all fairly specific things. Meaning: If you have decent endurance in the water, it really means zero when you get on a bike or go for a run some carry over is possible but what do you think is better Running to get better at swimming or swimming (even though your goal is to improve the endurance of swimming). Balance is the same some carryover is possible but generally it is not enough to actually go out and train balance in some other activity in the hopes of it carrying over to your activity.

In the end it comes down to work vs reward ration. Your time would be much better spent actually training the planche than doing sprinting to get your self in shape (unless you are fairly overweight).

I would actually be less surprised if the op didn't get this from wiki but from classroom, when I learned exercises science in class I was greatly disappointed by the more theory less real world results applications that the teachers were teaching us. If the teachers had their way everyone would be doing swiss ball crunches and working out on the machines, major part of the workout would be running on the treadmill or stair stepping. I dropped out of the program shortly after. PS. Although A&P I and II were awesome.

[Hayden.M.]

i understand what you mean by the 400 metre sprint being irrelevant, but i was using this type of exercise as an example as i currently do not know of any other that taxes the lactate energy system better (200, 400, same difference ). if i was to be more specific i would go with long periods of time in handstand, high reps of ordinary pushups (or pseudo for those capable of high reps in this) and then combining this with the actual planche and maximal strenght work.. although i do see the problem with this being a bit too much, but if youre body can handle it, then, why not..

i know it seems that im looking for some magical way to improve my planche faster, but to be honest, i am! ive been doing a training regime now since march and im currently on my second training cycle. i have made significant improvements using coaches steady state cycle in almost EVERY area.. except planche. its still the same, no improvement.. nothing. you name any other exercise, ill bet you ive improved in it. im even starting to get closer and closer to holding a flag at horizontal. not quite there, but getting closer. before march, there was ABSOLUTLEY NO WAY IN HELL i could even get my feet off the floor for the flag. and im not even religiously training flag, im using a more greasing the groove thing when i go the club. however with planche, im doing greasing the groove at the club and out of it and still, nothing. still cant get past 5 sec.. if i even reach that at times.. i hope you can see now where the desperation is coming from.

id also just like to mention that i know that there is people that think that i get my knowledge from wikipedia. this is not true.. i know i cannot prove this :? but all what i know comes from books i have and the classroom.

i appreciate everyones replies,

thanks for reading,

hayden

[Gerald Mangona]

i know it seems that im looking for some magical way to improve my planche faster, but to be honest, i am! ive been doing a training regime now since march and im currently on my second training cycle. i have made significant improvements using coaches steady state cycle in almost EVERY area.. except planche. its still the same, no improvement.. nothing. you name any other exercise, ill bet you ive improved in it. im even starting to get closer and closer to holding a flag at horizontal. not quite there, but getting closer. before march, there was ABSOLUTLEY NO WAY IN HELL i could even get my feet off the floor for the flag. and im not even religiously training flag, im using a more greasing the groove thing when i go the club. however with planche, im doing greasing the groove at the club and out of it and still, nothing. still cant get past 5 sec.. if i even reach that at times.. i hope you can see now where the desperation is coming from.

Hayden, I think that rather than propose a hypothesis on how one could improve the planche faster...you may get more useful replies if you simply state, "I'm stuck in my planche development and need help". While the limits of your lactate energy system may be a factor, the overwhelming opinion from the above posters is that there are far more critical areas in your strength development which need to be addressed first.

I can't help you with the planche, but I wish you the best in finding the answers you're looking for. If you explain where you are in your planche progressions, you'll be likely to find the direction you need to go.

JM

[Adriano Katkic]

still cant get past 5 sec..

Man, you're not even near the engaging lactate energy system with 5 seconds work. You have to build strength first.

i have made significant improvements using coaches steady state cycle in almost EVERY area.. except planche. its still the same, no improvement

Start SSC-ing the planche. Simple as that.

[Jason Stein]

Hayden,

Many of your themes were addressed here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3926&start=0

best of luck,

jason

[Mike B]