Getting Started (Again)

[Daniel Husek]

In October 2016 I decided to finally commit to gymnastics strength training.  Coach Sommer's interviews, programming, and overall approach to fitness greatly attracted me to join.  I used my current military deployment to focus on the foundations series, hand-stand 1, and eventually the stretch series.  I finally settled into a groove of consistent training, but was sidelined beginning of January due to a rotator cuff injury.  It happened during the thoracic stretch series attempting the thoracic bridge pushup - likely attempting too much for the first round in this series ("always do more tomorrow, can't undo if you do too much today" sticks out in my mind now).  Without imagery, the ortho diagnosis is a infraspinatus tear - shoulder extension painful and very weak.  Obviously, I'm bummed.  I was seeing some interesting upper body gains in the short time from training that helped me overcome imbalances from a completely torn pec major (unrepaired) from a previous injury back in 2008.  Lots of historic compensation here.  I've since started a PT protocol to rehab, but would love to continue GST.  Outside of following therapist protocol and ortho guidelines.  Any recommendations on training around the injury?  Recommendations on getting back into upper body movements and eventually thoracic stretch series? And perhaps a little encouragement...

Thanks all.  I'm looking forward to dedicating some time towards this. 

[Everett Carroll]

5 hours ago, Daniel Husek said:

"always do more tomorrow, can't undo if you do too much today" sticks out in my mind now

So true. Learn from that past mistake and stick with the PT's protocol. Avoid training through any sort of joint pain. If any of the medical professionals who moderate on here have any additional advice they will chime in. 

[Tanya Hill]

Hi Daniel, 

Something is bound to happen to us and the best part is pushing through. With the proper recovery you will be back in no time. @Everett Carroll gave some great advice and I would definitely consult with your PT. 

During this recovery process Id make sure you are taking baths and applying heat to the injured area. Heat brings more blood flow and will help speed up the process. 

When getting back into the thoracic bridge course only go as far as you can with good form. 

I had a shoulder injury this past summer, and man it was a struggle to get through. I did come to realize that having this injury created more body awareness for me and brought me more in tune with my training.

Feel free to post videos of things you are doing for recovery and we can give you some tips. 

[Leo Trinidad]

@Daniel Husek remember that taking a step back is not failing. Good advise from @Everett Carroll and @Tanya Hill

[John Kiggundu]

Daniel,

As a more "long-term" solution after all the surgeries, rehab, etc. (if they are required), I would encourage you to try including xiaopengs (especially the backward variety), hinge rows and both undergrip and overgrip shoulder dislocates (while prone) in your training.

Prior to enrolling in the GB courses I had had a minor shoulder injury for a long time but I didn't feel any pain and because it was on my right shoulder (I'm left-handed) I could still do my normal athletic endeavors without worrying about aggravating it. Anyway, when I began GST, I noticed that my right shoulder was weaker than my left whenever I attempted the isolated mobility exercises I just mentioned above. After a little over 3 years of GST, this discrepancy in shoulder mobility has become noticeably smaller and I expect to achieve parity in shoulder mobility in the not too distant future.

I attribute this improvement 100% to my GST. As I mentioned earlier, I had had this problem for a very long time, for about 15 years plus. 

NB: As with everything, mobility is a long-term endeavor not a short-term quick fix where you can expect results to happen in one month or less. Think more of 3-4 years with consistent application of the above mentioned exercises.

As always, follow the path suggested by your doctor and only consider the above as ideas worth sharing with him/her.

[Darin Phoenix]

Hi Daniel,

It already sounds like you have worked through some major setbacks before. In many ways training can imitate life, there will definitely be problems and setbacks along the way. It is the way that we respond to these that can help us grow. You can use this time away from upper body training to focus on your leg training or perhaps your front and middle splits. There is always something that you can be working on to improve.

There was some great advice from both Tanya and Everett. I would definitely stick to your Ortho and PT suggested rehab protocol.

Can I ask why there was no imagery done in the diagnosis to determine the extent of the damage?

Wishing you best of luck in your recovery.

 

[Ryan Bailey]

Hi Daniel,

Excellent advice and input from the coaches so far.  I wanted to add a bit towards your specific GST question outside of your PT protocol.  

Recent trends in rotator cuff tendinopathy research is geared towards loading the tendon for healing.  When loading the tendon and using isometrics, there is both a strengthening effect as well as analgesic benefits (pain relief) .

EMG studies have demonstrated improved voluntary contraction of the Infraspinatus ironically in the isometric pressing positions (Imagine push-up plus position). This is due to the co-contraction of muscles supporting this bodyweight position.  The positions used in the study look similar to top held range of sPL PE 1 - 4 as well as HBP PE1 and 2. 

Basically, one option is to show your physio the GST progressions you are working towards and they can blend the rehab protocol into it.  For example, in the PE positions above, holding the top position with the approval of your therapist, will get the tendon loading effects and the pain relief benefit (after the exercise hold, not during).

At the same time the body will be recruiting progressive serratus anterior protraction strength and support strength in the connective tissues of the wrist and hands; this will be of benefit for future GST training.

 

[Darin Phoenix]

Thanks for providing this information Ryan.

Do you have a link for further information on this.

 

[Ryan Bailey]

1 hour ago, Darin Phoenix said:

Thanks for providing this information Ryan.

Do you have a link for further information on this.

 

Sure Darin,

http://www.jospt.org/doi/abs/10.2519/jospt.2003.33.3.109?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed&code=jospt-site

Clink on the link. Then open the free pdf. 

Points of interest:

1) EMG Chart on Page 112 (Notice the % Maximum Voluntary Isometric Contraction, %MVIC, of the infraspinatus specifically compared to the rest of the muscle groups in the 6th and 7th bodyweight position)

2) Look at Figure 6 and 7 on page 115. 

3) The other positions in figures 1-5 present modified loads. These are used for scaled back bodyweight positions for reduced infraspinatus recruitment.

4) The conclusion is also succinct and interesting for a quick read.

This also provides a research example of the rotator cuff health we are gaining (especially in the posterior cuff!) even in early straddle planche progressions found in Foundation 1.

Ok, I gotta get back to work now 

 

 

 

[Suzanna McGee]

1 hour ago, Ryan Bailey said:

http://www.jospt.org/doi/abs/10.2519/jospt.2003.33.3.109?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed&code=jospt-site

Clink on the link. Then open the free pdf. 

What a great study! Thanks for posting this, Ryan! Kind of fun to see also how dramatically the posterior delt's engagement increases in that one handed version at the end. 

[Daniel Husek]

Forum coaches and good people,

Greatly appreciate all of your input towards addressing the rotator cuff injury and overall deficiencies that I'm experiencing.  I meant to post sooner about progress - my apologies.  I've incorporated much of your advice/input to my daily training and PT.  @Darin Phoenix, no imagery conducted b/c ortho determined that injury was not a full thickness tear.  Although, imagery would've been nice to know the extent.

As noted in earlier posts, many of the early movements in the foundation series (upper body) address some the rotator cuff areas.  I bumped this w/ my PT who suggested to continue training w/ GST at a cautious pace.  Thanks @Ryan Bailey.  So far, I'm happy to say that I've SLOWLY been making progress w/ that area.  Yet, the injured shoulder and shoulder blade still cause discomfort.  My previously torn (and mostly missing) left pec also continues to be a major shortcoming in training progress (expected and likely linked to the shoulder issue).  I'm hoping that  I can still make progress albeit rather slowly.  The multi-year approach to GST training, as many of you have recommended, gives me that hope.

I'll seek opportunities to post some videos on here.  Thanks again!

[Michael McDaniel]

I've had 3 shoulder surgeries.  I ran out of shoulders in Feb 2016 and had to have my dominant shoulder under the knife a second time for a massive rotator cuff tear.  So, I understand set-backs.  I'm 56 yo active male and have fully recovered beyond what the surgeon or I had hoped.  So, I just started the Fundamentals 2 weeks ago and doing fine so far.  I fully expect to be able to get some long lost flexibility back for with my martial arts and other fitness hobbies.  Follow your surgeon and PT and ask LOTS of questions to define the parameters of your allowed exercise.  I went back after several months to my surgeon and he encouraged me to start pushing it hard.  It will happen for you ... if you let it heal.  Baby it for as long as it takes.  This is the advice of someone that's had 3 rotator cuff surgeries.  Be patient, smart and never give up.

I'm curious why you didn't get imaging or ever have the torn pec repaired.  Ligaments will retract with time and if they are torn off the joint may become inoperable because the ligament with dissolve and the muscle to which it attaches with atrophy into nothingness.  PT if great but it's useless to heal a torn ligament or damaged joint.  You'll only strengthen the ancillary muscles which will compensate and create asymmetries.  Asymmetries will cause their own problems.  In my case, I have lots of neck pain on my right side because my right (dominant) arm found ways to compensate for the torn ligament over 5 years.  I'm not trying to scare you, but I'm encouraging you to seek a doctor's opinion and get surgery if that's what is prescribed.  Compensating muscles have caused me a lot of neck pain now and I'm getting PT and needling to deal with that.