Coach, with all due respect

[Guest marktb68]

First, I appreciate your efforts in giving us laypeople quality information but so far the information, specifically the videos and exercises, are for ELITE gymnasts and not really a realistic goal for the wannabe. I highly doubt the likelihood of any of us being able to do the Bower pressup or walking l-sit without YOUR personal instruction on a day-to-day basis.

Secondly, over a month ago you mentioned the WOD would be up and running "next week" and its been over 5 weeks. This is reminiscent of the book and its years of delay in being available. We don't want perfection. YOu might and I respect that but personally, I am getting frustrated by the promises and endless delays.

I am not speaking for all but can you gear some of the homepage exercises to more of a realistic goal for us(me). I've been doing planches for over 2 years and have yet to hit 60 seconds in the beginning phase.

Mark

[kbryk]

Actually some of us and most of us can realistically look at doing some of these skills within a year, l-sit walk is nothing to far, bowers of course are of course a hard skill but doable, you just need to set your mind on some skills, most people look at the front lever and planche, once those get into reach people seem to look at other skills and develop them and it all plays together and you can throw stuff up and you will see large improvements if you stick with bodyweight.

As for the workout of the day, I think the quality videos and full essays describing them are good enough, if he did WOD it would be the same old stuff, but lets say he continues what he has been doing and suppling us with these great videos with lots of description and the are unique workouts well then I say let him be.

Of course we would all like to get our hands on the books, but remember your not a coach nor are you an athlete, progress takes time, and I'm almost sure he doesn't have lots of time on his hands to be dealing with WOD's and writing out pages for his book, being a coach is tough, especially when people expect a lot out of you.

As for your 60 second thing, I'm almost sure it's 30 seconds.

I've been working bodyweight for less than a year, I'm in reach of a Cross, front lever, and straddle planche, so thats saying something, and you're not susposed to just work the skills coach posts, do you spend time on pushups, v-ups, hollow holds, handstands, and basic stuff like that, if not thats where you are failing, most people just hop into the planche workouts when they can't even lift their own bodyweight.

Just my two cents...

[Calbear]

First off I have to agree with Mark's frustration. Saying someone should and ought to be able to achieve something within a year is an unqualified statement. I played rugby and football in college at 200+ pounds, many advanced bodyweight movements are difficult. I am a relative beginner for these advanced moves and though I find them fascinating and am working toward them i have the same frustrations as Mark. The reason people keep asking about the book etc. it because it is needed for many people. I stopped wrestling in high school and throughout college did almost entirely olympic lifts and powerlifts. Saying that someone could get a bower within a year isn't taking into account training history, body composition, or overall size. It is far easier for me to squat 400lbs at my bodyweight than it is for say a 150lb man. However the 150lbers probably has a better chance at bodyweight exercises. Much of training is relative. I for one would like a book that shows not only unusual exercises but a way to progress into them. There have been a number of promises on the book but we have yet to see it.

All that said, this website is growing rapidly and the material and help it provides great so far. Part of the big appeal of Coach Sommer is his ability to break these movements into parts that larger athletes can crack. I look forward to the book, other equipment etc but hope that its sooner rather than later

[kbryk]

Like I said you have to progress into these skills, start off with pushups, situps etc... and I'm 160ish and I was able to put up nearly 300 pounds on squat, its just how consistent you are with all your workouts, when I began to workout I hit up the gym everyday, and work bodyweight after that, I know it wasn't smart but it got me where I needed to be, of course if you have more weight and size to your frame it will be harder, hell I'm 5"11 and 160ish I'm not made for gymnastics either, but hell I try hard and put a lot of effort into it and getting great results, look at the cup half full rather than half empty, I know it sounds stupid, but if you put effort in you will get great results and that's what everyone wants.

[aw0n0]

Like I said you have to progress into these skills, start off with pushups, situps etc... and I'm 160ish and I was able to put up nearly 300 pounds on squat, its just how consistent you are with all your workouts, when I began to workout I hit up the gym everyday, and work bodyweight after that, I know it wasn't smart but it got me where I needed to be, of course if you have more weight and size to your frame it will be harder, hell I'm 5"11 and 160ish I'm not made for gymnastics either, but hell I try hard and put a lot of effort into it and getting great results, look at the cup half full rather than half empty, I know it sounds stupid, but if you put effort in you will get great results and that's what everyone wants.

+1

and also the bowers thread has a detailed progression which should be possible for both of you. and every lever exercise posted has the obvious progressions (tuck, straddle) possible. pretty much the only exercise coach sommer has posted that i could not do some variation of is the L-sit walk, its damn near impossible!

also- you live in arizona, which is where coach summer coaches isnt it???

[Calbear]

Ok i think you guys are missing the point. I dont want to start a fight here with anybody. Nobody is being a pessimist. I was simply pointing out two things: 1. That Coach has said products are going to be released, and then nothing. That irks people. 2. Im not trying to say you cant squat 300 or whatever, im always down to see people that are training hard improve. Lets be honest, the people on this board are training harder than 99% of the schmoes you see in commercial gyms. I was simply pointing out that bodyweight variations are tough. To tell somebody to do pushups, dips, pullups etc when they are trying to achieve a lever isn't going to help. Its like when a guy goes on a powerlifting board and the arrogant lifters there tell him to "eat more and lift heavy". Thats not going to get him where he needs to go. Coach Sommer's first book was to address basic strength with regards to ADVANCED bodyweight work, not PE class calisthenics.

[kbryk]

I meant variations of pushups, try some pseduo planche pushups, try some swiss ball pushups, you'll notice a different, try some ring dips once again you will notice a difference, oh yeah just one thing I've been working the front lever for under 2 months and I owe it to dragon flags, I did try some of Coaches stuff it just wasn't working for me.. you have to try what works, and if the book did come it can't tell you how to do everything, you must take it from what you've seen, you guys are expecting that just cause a book comes out it means you will see more improvement use what you have and use it well, of course we all want to see the book cause we know it will be good, but use the resources everyone has been putting in place here.

[Coach Sommer]

Gentlemen,

First of all, calm down. You are a guest in my forum, behave appropriately.

Secondly, I apologize for the book not being released according to the schedule which you and I would both prefer. However, resolving the issues with my online store is currently about third on my list of priorities. I am very much enjoying my time spent working on the Gymnastics Bodies website and interacting with all of you; however, fulfilling my duties to my upper level athletes as the National Championships draw ever nearer must of necessity be my main priority. All of my other projects must currently take a back seat until the Championships are completed in the beginning of May.

The WODs are complete, however the time required to film the necessary support videos cannot currently be justified at the expense of my athletes' training time until after Regional Championships next week.

Thirdly, surely you can survive in the interim with all of the other essays and videos which I have been making available to you. You have more than enough information and examples available at the moment to keep you progressing nicely.

Fourthly, many of the movements I have been showing you are attainable with diligence and hard work; and yes, more than a little perseverance. However the intention is not to promise that you will achieve the same level of excellence, anymore than watching a sprinter at the Olympics will make you run faster. Their purpose is to serve as an inspiration and to open your minds to what is possible with the proper progressions and a correctly developed training program. Your own levels of talent, dedication and perspiration will decide how far along the path of excellence you will personally progress.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Calbear]

Thank You Coach

[Scott Malin]

To emphasize what coach said, this is the biggest thing:

Fourthly, many of the movements I have been showing you are attainable with diligence and hard work; and yes, more than a little perseverance.

I work with the whole range of fitness levels and I hear the exact same frustrations from obese individuals: namely that they don't believe themselves capable of an advanced level of fitness. Almost word-for-word of some of the early posts in fact. Be patient with yourself and keep working hard. Coach Sommer's athletes are doing a lot more that figures into their ability to do these exercises...he just can't detail everything all at once and right now. There are many variables that go into training, and sometimes it's about finding the one that's holding you back. Personally I can't do a perfect Bower pushup (though I'm working hard at getting it there!) but I love gymnastics for exactly that reason--I never lack for challenge. Frustration is a natural emotion when you aren't where you want to be as quickly as you want to be. However, having an emotion doesn't mean it needs to be listened to so just accept it and keep working. You all are capable of more than you likely give yourself credit. Keep your head up and smile. When you get there it'll be worth it. Remember the journey, not the destination.

[Scott Malin]

William, let's try and keep an inclusive atmosphere by contributing positively. There is no 'us vs them' mentality here.

[George Launchbury]

wow, first i must say you guys are all very wrong

if your not in gymnastics and have no gymnastics back ground, head over to cross fit or somewhere where you guys belong, this is not a site for achieving a handstand for 5 seconds or 2 muscle ups, its about helping the average gymnast, this site is great and i think if you cant do anything but a tuck planche for thirty seconds and a little handstand, just go to cross fit or beast skills(nothing bad against beast skills, his site is awesome)

SO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

Wow. I'm almost lost for words. Where does one even start?

It's not up to you who should go somewhere else. For some this is a site for 5 second handstands and 2 muscle-ups, and I for one am all for helping everyone achieve what they can, as long as they are prepared to behave in an appropriate manner. You are not in a position to decide what or who this site is for, and I've no idea where you got that misguided notion from!?

As coreathlete said, this is an inclusive community. It is for people of all abilities with a common interest. Please take more care with your manners and attitude in future.

Regards,

George.

[williamprowse]

sorry, i just hate when people complain about such a good thing, this site is truly awesome and has great advice

[Calbear]

William,

I second what George is saying. Coach Sommer released his original articles on Dragondoor, and even did an article and interview for T-nation. His original article was on so innovative because it broke two tough moves, the planche and lever down into achievable goals. It was directed at non-gymnasts. His stuff on t-nation was directed at bodybuilders, athletes, powerlifters, etc who were interested in adding complex gymnastic moves into their training. That is what is so innovative about Coach Sommer's work, and the help that the mods are providing. So what if a guy comes here and can only do 2 muscle-ups, in time he'll be able to get 5 or 10 or whatever. This site is to help ALL fitness enthusiasts achieve bodyweight excellence. Nobody is an expert in everything, god forbid members of this board want to try to add gymnastics into their lives and seek advice here and then become frustrated. It is when frustration sets in that guidance and advice from the "experienced" gymnasts becomes even more helpful.

[Raizen]

Wow, you guys are coming undone. Seriously while this site is an invaluable tool for gaining some very informative insight on strength training; particularly Gymnastic Strength Training™ obviously, you should also possess at least a minor degree of creativity and understanding of what people are telling you. I mean yes, the fact that Coach's book is... years overdo is certainly vexing as hell, but lets be honest, he has priorities. He obviously places a good deal of importance on us, as he's been producing video technique guides more frequently than ever lately. But if you were a coach of elite champions, you'd obviously want to focus the majority of your attention on their perfection, for obvious reasons. When the book does come out, we'll all be estatic. I believe he's promised that the book will be filled with tons of techiniques for many different fitness levels, as well as how to put togethor routines; which is good because many people here seem to lack much finess in that area. But until that "holy grail" of Gymnastic Strength Training™ lore comes out, you'll simply have to fend for yourself. Actually you really dont even have to manage that, as there are plenty of people here that give amazing advice to the lost (George, coach himself, Ido, ect) whenever possible. But seriously people, if there are no WOD's then you need to make your own, by using logic and advice from this forum's very intellegent members, and then go do it. Complaints will get you nowhere fast in your training, but actually working out will, even if its not the "ideal routine".

Second, saying that people shouldn't bother with this site if they arent gymnasts is simply ridiculous. Sure, it is extremely unlikely that non-gymnasts will ever be able to grasp super hardcore moves like Victorians or Crosses for any significant amount of time, but by practicing these techniques they will surely develop great realtive body strength. Look at me, I used to be incredibly into using powerlifting moves like snatches and cleans (which are great btw, they've given me incredible power in all my martial arts endevours), and then i read Coach's olympic body article and now I can hold full planches and front levers for about 12 seconds in a single effort. And I havent been doing them for all that long either, only around 8 months, which is good seeing as unlike gymnasts I actually emphasize my lower body moreso than my upper body. Sure fitness is an obsession of mine since I was 13, and I had a good deal of strength before I began on those progressions, if I can nail them in 8-9 months than it certainly shouldn't take a reasonably fit person 2 years. I'm a hardgainer (I swear =/)

Saying someone should and ought to be able to achieve something within a year is an unqualified statement.

Certainly you can't expect him to write up a time range for each individual form of athlete body. Obviously this is a generalization. That article was written years ago, and its primary purpose was to introduce people to an effect way to reach two prominent gymnastic strength holds. It breaks it down in an easy to understand methodical way, and works. If you dont have the ideal shape for the holds then it will indeed take longer. You just have to apply a little logic and educated guess work. If you have even a moderate amount of fat on you, this is going to slow progress. If you have particularly long and/or heavy legs... this is going to slow you down. Be reasonable.

Ok so synopsis of my obnoxiously long rant:

-be creative, be smart, stop mindlessly asking for advice you dont even try to understand

-don't wait for the ideal routine. instead constantly aim to improve your routine as you learn more, so you;re always active.

-this forum is about free exchange of fitness lore for ALL athletes, dont discriminate because someone doesnt practice your art.

-stop complaining, and start training so hard that you simply dont have enough energy to bother. Time well spend =]