The risks of the bench press

[Ryan Libke]

I realize that most persons taking their cues from BTGB don't utilize the bench press often, but it would be my guess that many have used it the past, do it occassionally for variety, or know others who see the bench press as a path to self-worth. I did bench presses as part of my strength training for years, although I did not seriously train as do powerlifters. There have been some comments that I have caught in passing but never completely understood, as to the risks of bench press to the shoulder, and I have heard of severe injuries to the pectoral muscles for those who press very heavy weight.

Could someone explain the risks associated with the bench press, especially for more the general fitness population? What are the mechanics of the injury? I ask this not because I need to be persuaded to change to a different form of training; I don't really use the bench press all that much because I prefer the rings or push-up variations. My choice was not so much to avoid the bench press, but was made because I was attracted to more gymnastic-type strength training. I am just curious, from a general perspective, whether the bench press should be avoided altogether if one wants to maintain healthy shoulders.

[braindx]

There's no risk provided you adequately balance your strength work (for the shoulder), maintain good scapular mobility, AND use proper technique

[Joshua Naterman]

And build up to whatever training technique you are using gradually

[Seiji]

Risks:

Rotator Cuff Injuries! Get the right technique!

Dropping the weight to break ribs or choke to death... easily preventable.

[Coach Sommer]

There's no risk provided you adequately balance your strength work (for the shoulder), maintain good scapular mobility, AND use proper technique

Steven is absolutely correct. It is not the bench press itself which is inherently harmful, it is the obsessive nature of some people's approach to it and their failure to utilize a well balanced conditioning program.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Daniel Jorgensen]

One extra note/emphasis: Proper technique does NOT save your shoulder. Proper technique is the whole problem as it is the very cause of the troubles related to bench press.

But pay attention to this very very very good article:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... and_shrugs

[Joshua Naterman]

Correction, 'Doc." Proper powerlifting technique for bench press is one part of the problem. The technique itself doesn't cause damage. Failure to perform the appropriate strength(and mobility)-balancing exercises for the shoulder girdle is the rest of the problem, and the part that allows for injuries to occur. When the musculature all around the shoulder is balanced in strength, there are no issues with bench press whether you use the "proper" powerlifting form or the more common "push-up with a bar" form.

Additionally, even with perfectly balanced strength and mobility, injuries can occur when an athlete(trainee, whatever term you prefer) tries to move too much weight too fast on bench. There are a number of factors that weigh in on the injuries. The article you referenced is good, and the reference to using shrugging actions for the balancing of scapular strength is intelligent. Thank you

Shrugs are any movement that involves the movement of the scapula, regardless of the direction. They can be done in handstands, on the bench press, in the planche, on the parallel bars at the top of the dip, holding buckets, and in any other position where the shoulder blades can be loaded with resistance. You can even do them with the bar on your back, as if you were doing back squats. Those are called Hise Shrugs, and are good for heavy squatters.

For those of you wanting a complete guide to the different shrugs and how to use them to create a strong and balanced shoulder girdle through all planes of movement, Kelso's Shrug Book is the authority on shrugging movements. It is by far the most complete book on the market, isn't particularly long, and is an easy read.

[Daniel Jorgensen]

Correction, 'Doc." Proper powerlifting technique for bench press is one part of the problem. The technique itself doesn't cause damage. Failure to perform the appropriate strength(and mobility)-balancing exercises for the shoulder girdle is the rest of the problem, and the part that allows for injuries to occur. When the musculature all around the shoulder is balanced in strength, there are no issues with bench press whether you use the "proper" powerlifting form or the more common "push-up with a bar" form.

We may end up with the naked truth in this thread

Shrugs are any movement that involves the movement of the scapula, regardless of the direction. They can be done in handstands, on the bench press, in the planche, on the parallel bars at the top of the dip, holding buckets, and in any other position where the shoulder blades can be loaded with resistance. You can even do them with the bar on your back, as if you were doing back squats. Those are called Hise Shrugs, and are good for heavy squatters.

Will handstand and dip shrugs work serratus anterior? If, how less efficient compared to horizontal load?

Will have a look at the book!

[Coach Sommer]

Gentlemen,

You are over analyzing this and failing to see the forest for the trees.

Please forgive me for being direct, however there are far more fundamental issues that you need to be concerned with in your training than does this "work the serratus anterior"? Are you capable of performing a correct chest roll to handstand? A correct press handstand? If so, for how many reps? Can you perform 10 minutes of continuous wall runs? How are your rope climbs? How are your HLLs? How are your front and back levers? These are just a few of the areas that must be addressed prior to beginning more advanced ring strength elements.

Rather than striving to re-invent the wheel, let's first learn to use the wheel that is already in front of us properly.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Hahahaha

I don't know why he's so uptight on that serratus anterior. As you say, it's important to work the various skills here, and if we are working all the skills then we are hitting all the angles and there are probably not going to be any issues.

As far as prehab for the shoulder goes, I don't know what you prescribe so as far as prehab exercises go all I know are Ido's shoulder routines, shrugs in all directions, arm circles, rotator work and our regular training with the BtGB exercises. I know that since I have started with the program here my shoulders have been consistently feeling better. Getting back into my groove with the shrugs is also helping a lot, I'm quite excited

As with most things, there is no one 'silver bullet' that solves or causes all the problems.

Doc, you seem to take my comments as being some sort of opposing stance to what the article you referenced said. All I said was that the shrugging movements mentioned in the article are excellent, and then proceeded to describe more types of shrugs and attempt to show that they all have value, and that it's not important what muscle they work, because there isn't one muscle that magically makes your shoulders work right. The shoulder is a complex joint and it takes a complete pre-hab and re-hab approach to prevent and heal injuries. Even the article you referenced starts to get into that, as they also recommend overhead shrugs. Overhead shrugs are the same as handstand shrugs, and the contracted position is where Coach tells us to execute all of our handstands, with the shoulders raised as close to the ears as possible in an open position. A lot of what is in that article is directly a part of this program, including the pushup work. In the article you referenced the authors even go so far as to show pictures of ring pushups, and point out that it is the shrugging motion at the end that is the therapeutic component. So you see, what I said supports and expands on what the article you referenced recommends. What they offered is still not a complete approach, which is why they have their program for sale at the bottom of the page. A complete strengthening and mobilization of the entire shoulder girdle in all possible planes of motion must be undertaken to have the best results and best performance. I just offer the information I have for free. Perhaps one day I will put a price tag on it, but not any time soon.

[Blairbob]

For awhile there, the mere act of working BL nearly guaranteed some muscle pull in my shoulders and back. Working shrugs on my Chuck Norris fitness POJ helped a lot.

[Daniel Jorgensen]

Doc, you seem to take my comments as being some sort of opposing stance to what the article you referenced said.

You completely misunderstood me. I appreciated your correction of me. And then I ask a question as I wanted to take advantage of your knowledge.

At Coach, no I can't even perform a freestanding handstand! The reason I asked about serratus ant. was:

I have a slightly winging left scap. Instruction is to work serratus with a perpendicular press.

I then ask if I can save time and use handstand practice, l-sit practice instead of this perpendicular press?!

[braindx]

Doc, you seem to take my comments as being some sort of opposing stance to what the article you referenced said.

You completely misunderstood me. I appreciated your correction of me. And then I ask a question as I wanted to take advantage of your knowledge.

At Coach, no I can't even perform a freestanding handstand! The reason I asked about serratus ant. was:

I have a slightly winging left scap. Instruction is to work serratus with a perpendicular press.

I then ask if I can save time and use handstand practice, l-sit practice instead of this perpendicular press?!

There is protraction of the scapula during handstand and proper L-sit as well as planche training. So yes, you should be able to use proper gymnastics training for rehabbing it at least partially.

If you need extra work afterwards then you may have to do some. I'm not sure how much people newer to gymnastics will be able to strengthen their serratus anterior correctly even with proper technique because it will depend on your ability to hold and maintain strict positions. Most people let their core sag, for example, which is why you see the excessive amounts of "planche pushups" on youtube which are terrible form and do not strengthen the body correctly to do either the position or develop proper shoulder strength.

[Joshua Naterman]

Nice post Brain! The brain brain brain brain, BRAIN!

Ah, I miss Pinky and the Brain.

Doc: No worries I honestly think that you, me, and most other people with shoulder issues are going to need to use all the shrugging to help rehab the shoulder. One other exercise that one of the guys here pointed out to me and that seems to be helping me with my shoulder issues is the Turkish Get Up. If you look it up on youtube you can see what it is. Basically, you are supporting a weight with a straight arm, while lying on your back facing the ceiling. Without bending your arm, you then proceed to put the free hand on the ground, get to your knees, then you plant one foot and stand up. You then lay back down again. This forces the scapula to move all over the place under load as you change positions, and really helps with stability a lot. It is helping me recover faster even with the various shrugs I am doing, so I believe there is value to it on top of the shrugging. And like brain said, the handstands with proper form(shoulders shrugged up to the ears) will also help you.

[Daniel Jorgensen]

Turkish Get Up.

Never thought of that, ty. Will give it a try

[Joshua Naterman]

I never thought of using it either I'm glad Heinrich(i think it's him anyways) brought it to my attention in terms of the shoulder rehab value.