Coach Sommer Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I recently received a very good question regarding programming:I'm wondering why (when) we do strength trainng , we always do 3*5 or 3*3? Why always perform 3 or 5 reps per set? Why not 5-10 or more?The reason for selecting 3-5 reps is because at this stage of your Gymnastic Strength Training™ you are focusing on building maximal strength with FBEs. Once you have built a solid foundation of maximal strength through the FBEs and have progressed onto advanced ring strength elements to further your maximal strength work, then you will begin performing FBEs in higher repetitions ranges to support joint health for your more advanced ring strength training.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xi xia Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Coach, Question about focusing on FBE's at 3-5 reps for maximal strength. I'm wondering if doing more reps (10-50) at a lighter load but at a quicker, higher rate of force would stimulate maximal strength as well. Similar to Westside barbell training philosophy but with body weight movements. You have Max effort days and dynamic effort days at 50% of load. So a mixture of focusing on FBE's at 3-5 reps and then a lighter load and more reps at a quicker speed. From the little I've read from the "Science and Practice of STrenth training" by Zatsiorsky, it would seem a more multi-pronged approach in resistance & rate of contraction would stimulate max strength development more fully.What are your thoughts on this? xxI recently received a very good question regarding programming:The reason for selecting 3-5 reps is because at this stage of your Gymnastic Strength Training™ you are focusing on building maximal strength with FBEs. Once you have built a solid foundation of maximal strength through the FBEs and have progressed onto advanced ring strength elements to further your maximal strength work, then you will begin performing FBEs in higher repetitions ranges to support joint health for your more advanced ring strength training.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 TY, Coach Sommer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Similar to Westside barbell training philosophy but with body weight movements. You have Max effort days and dynamic effort days at 50% of load... So a mixture of focusing on FBE's at 3-5 reps and then a lighter load and more reps at a quicker speed. The higher rep days are primarily inserted for joint prehab and rejuvenation of the CNS. You see this type of programming already inserted in the GB WODs on days where the reps are either for time or distance. Also note that this programming is only applicable to maximum strength developed with FBEs. Once advanced ring strength training begins, other programming parameters will apply.As far as using a multi-pronged approach, it bears mentioning here that there are far more effective ways of increasing force production than simply increasing the speed of a repetition. However in order to benefit from this type of dynamic strength training, it is important, actually it is essential, to have first developed a good foundation of basic strength. You encountered this firsthand at the May GB Seminar where some of the attendees struggled with performing basic plyometric exercises that I use with my beginning level athletes. They were strong from a muscular maximum strength viewpoint, but their tendon and ligament strength preparation was sorely lacking.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xi xia Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thanks Coach. I do see the higher rep days in the GB programming and look forward to them. However, most of the time the movements are very hard and I am just doing 1-5 reps of 80% of the exercises you list and it is still maximal effort for me. Often times, I have to scale just to do the exercise at all. So, in a sense, it always seems like I'm doing max effort FBE's all the time! On these days for time and distance, should I then scale the workout so I'm able to do more than 1-5 reps before failure? For instance, HeSPU. If those come up in a WOD, I know can do a few and then it breaks down to singles. Should I just scale to box Hespu right away knowing that I can do multiple rounds of 10 with some rest in between? Thanks and this question has been on our minds for a while and I am glad this thread is addressing it. The higher rep days are primarily inserted for joint prehab and rejuvenation of the CNS. You see this type of programming already inserted in the GB WODs on days where the reps are either for time or distance. Also note that this programming is only applicable to maximum strength developed with FBEs. Once advanced ring strength training begins, other programming parameters will apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braindx Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 You should apply adequate rest to achieve your strength sets. If you can do 3-5 reps for one set, you can usually do it for another set or two.Always scale into the 3-6ish rep range is what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xi xia Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 So, how would you scale this WOD a couple of days ago? 5 XR Bulgarian L Pull-ups10 FL Pulls15 HLLWhen would you scale for each of the movements? I could do the FL Pulls tucked and quick, all 10. Or slower, more control and do multiple sets. Same thing with HLL, I could use some momentum or multiple sets with control or tucked in and do all 15. Thanks for your thoughts. You should apply adequate rest to achieve your strength sets. If you can do 3-5 reps for one set, you can usually do it for another set or two.Always scale into the 3-6ish rep range is what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braindx Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Prescribed workouts you do as is. If you're following the site...Scale down/up to a progression that allows the same amount of reps in that particular exercise as the 5,10,15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xi xia Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hi there, I think we are having a miscommunication. For this workout, 5 XR L-Pull ups10 FL Pulls15 HLLI can do all the movements as prescribed but lets say I can only do 1 L-Pull up, 2 slow controlled FL pulls but 10 fast tucked ones in a row, and 5 good congtrolled HLL's or 15 momentum assisted ones. So, if I'm following the site, what is "prescribed"? Do the 1 L-Pull up, 2 slow controlled FL pulls, and 5 controlled HLLs and take longer, much more rest? Or is prescription do the faster version, less rest, more speed, but less control? Your second comment of "Scale down/up to a progression" leads me to think you are saying that I should scale the workout above with my fast tucked FL pulls that I could 10 of instead of the slower and harder FL pulls. And that I should add a little momentum to the HLL's and try to do 15 in a row. Thanks for clarifyingPrescribed workouts you do as is. If you're following the site...Scale down/up to a progression that allows the same amount of reps in that particular exercise as the 5,10,15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Sommer Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Should I just scale to box Hespu right away knowing that I can do multiple rounds of 10 with some rest in between?Yes, you should scale the movements as necessary to achieve the designated repetitions in as close to a single set as possible. Also keep in mind that you will be doing multiple rounds of a giant set so try to plan the exercises selected for the entire round accordingly. Otherwise you are correct, everyday will seem like a max effort day :shock: and that is not the intention of the GB WOD programming.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xi xia Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks Coach!!! That clears it up a bunchShould I just scale to box Hespu right away knowing that I can do multiple rounds of 10 with some rest in between?Yes, you should scale the movements as necessary to achieve the designated repetitions in as close to a single set as possible. Also keep in mind that you will be doing multiple rounds of a giant set so try to plan the exercises selected for the entire round accordingly. Otherwise you are correct, everyday will seem like a max effort day :shock: and that is not the intention of the GB WOD programming.Yours in Fitness,Coach Sommer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfit Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Hi Coach -Can you give some guidelines as to what an adequate level of Max Strength is for some of the basic BW exercises. I am trying to figure out at what level I should switch my focus to Dynamic efforts.- Weighted Pull-ups- HSPU- Weighted Ring Dips- Pistols- Natural GHRThanks,JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Winkler Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 What dynamic exercises are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfit Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I am referring to the switch from Max Strength Efforts to Explosive Strength/Power movements.JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Winkler Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Coach hasn't even released those books yet. How close are you to finishing the exercise progressions from the first book? His answer will probably have to do with that rather than weighted pullups and dips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelo Lara Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I have a question: how long must be the rest between the series for maximum strenght? And why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Winkler Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 No less than 3 minutes, 5 is even better. This allows for full regeneration of creatine phosphate which is a required substrate for max strength work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 not creatine phosphate, ATP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Winkler Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Well, both. You've got a few seconds of immediately available ATP, and then CP breaks down to give a few more seconds of ATP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelo Lara Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Ok, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoa Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 whats the meaning of "FBEs"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Start Test Smith Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 whats the meaning of "FBEs"?FBE = fundamental bodyweight exerciseshttp://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewto ... 1434#p8626 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long1468 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 What are the Fundamental Bodyweight exercises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 In a nutshell: pullups, pushups, squats, leglifts/situp progressions. That is a very crude way to describe them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber2 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Coach hasn't even released those books yet. How close are you to finishing the exercise progressions from the first book? His answer will probably have to do with that rather than weighted pullups and dips.In that case this book would last me a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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