Edward Smith Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I've heard that cardio especially, aerobic, is detrimental to strength but i do enjoy a bit of cardio and would like to include it into my routines. I play rugby so i would like most of my cardio geared towards that, I was thinking 400m's, 800m's and maybe some 1-1.5 km and also some speed work (50-100m sprints). If you have any views or advice on this please share it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Launchbury Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Hi ed x,The kind of aerobic activities that will be detrimental to muscle growth/strength would be things that are generally performed for times in excess of 20-30 minutes of constant effort. This might include running (jogging), cycling, and swimming. However, if you up the intensity of those same activities so that you can only sustain them for short periods of time ...that changes everything.For example, a 45 minute jog is bad, whereas a 45 minute strength session would still have a large aerobic effect from all the recovery between sets, but be largely anaerobic and promote muscle growth. Broadly speaking, this is how doing intervals can train the anaerobic and aerobic pathways effectively at the same time. Day to day life is an aerobic activity, even watching TV and sleeping.In order to prevent muscle loss, you need to tax your anerobic systems and do strength training. A good example is Dean Karnazes, who is a famous ultra-marathon runner (he was the guy who ran 50 marathons in 50 states in 50 days). Having read his book, he does run an awful lot (training by doing a few marathons a week), eating mainly low-carb when he is training, and does plenty of resistance training, climbing, wind-surfing etc.In doing this, he has maintained a surprising amount of muscle mass:Hope this is of use,George.P.s. Here are some notes about energy pathways that I have (can't remember where they came from originally):Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP)a complex chemical compound formed with the energy released from food and stored in all cells, particularly muscles. Only from the energy released by the breakdown of this compound can the cells perform work. The breakdown of ATP produces energy and ADP (which is 'recycled', see below).Creatine Phosphate (CP)a chemical compound stored in muscle, which when broken down aids in the manufacture of ATP. The combination of ADP and CP produces ATP.Lactic acidThe lactic acid system is capable of releasing energy to resynthesise ATP without the involvement of oxygen and is called anaerobic glycolysis (breakdown of carbohydrates). A fatiguing metabolite of the lactic acid system resulting from the incomplete breakdown of glucose can restrict further performance.AerobicATP is manufactured from food (mainly sugar and fat). This system produces ATP copiously and is the prime energy source during endurance activities. This is also how the body recovers between bouts of interval/strength training in replenishing ATP stores.Duration (Classification) ...Energy Supplied By1 to 4 seconds (Anaerobic) ...ATP (in muscles)4 to 10 seconds (Anaerobic) ...ATP + CP10 to 45 seconds (Anaerobic) ...ATP + CP + Muscle glycogen45 to 120 seconds (Anaerobic, Lactic) ...Muscle glycogen120 to 240 seconds (Aerobic + Anaerobic) ...Muscle glycogen + lactic acid240 to 600 seconds (Aerobic) ...Muscle glycogen + fatty acids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Do interval work. You get a cardio effect, burn bodyfat and take less time.For example, sprint 30 sec. rest 2 min., repeat 5 times. There are many ways to mix and match times and exercises. If you do it right it will help you recover from your strength workouts quicker. I do 2 strength workouts a week and 2 interval workouts. The intervals I always do on the day after the strength workout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbryk Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Personally when I ran I started off with 3 mile run, although that is effective, it is very time consuming, research some Tabata intervals, they are great and will kill you, I also did some 100 yard sprints, about 8 sets of these with 10 seconds of rest will do you in. Like the person above me said it is said to burn more fat and increase V02 max, it doesn't seem to effect muscle strength, but hey you can never leave cardio. out of exercising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I used to do what I called running ladders since I wanted to be able to be decent across a few different distances. Helluva workout too. Run a 100, walk 50, run a 200, walk 100, run a 400 ( sometimes I would do 300's ), walk 200, run a 600 or 800, etc. After 800's, I would generally cycle down. 100-200-400-800 2x for short cycle and using the 300, 600, and maybe the 1mi on long sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizen Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 The exercises you choose depend on your goals. Rugby requires a fairly high amount of endurance (especially hardcore games), and so you'll want have decent aerobic endurance. However for quick burst of (near) maximum capacity effort, like mad sprinting and such, you'll have to train your anaerobic systems. Both are completely different systems that rely on different energy sources and apply to different types of movement. You just need to decided which type of endurance is more important to you, and then plan to improve said type. One idea is just to do everything!.. within reason. I, personally, would focus primarily on HIIT, and only do aerobic style training every now and then, as simply playing your rugby will most certainly give you sufficient cardio. That's jus my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbryk Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 HIIT, is pretty much Tabata, they are both great and will get you good but you will notice improvements fast, today I ran a few miles and felt great, I forgot how running makes you feel, so I'll have to keep up with it as I use too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Launchbury Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 During a Rugby match players will switch between sprinting, running, jogging, walking and even standing. Here is some data from a study in New Zealand, where 29 professional Rugby Union players where analysed for time and motion during the course of eight professional matches. This might help you decide which kind of metabolic conditioning would benefit you more?Low intensity activity was classed as> standing still> walking> jogging> side/backwards steppingHigh intensity activity was classed as> running> sprinting> rucking> mauling> scrummaging> tacklingFront Row Forwards128 average high intensity efforts per match5 seconds average duration high intensity efforts35 seconds average duration low intensity effortsBack Row Forwards113 average high intensity efforts per match5.2 seconds average duration high intensity efforts37 seconds average duration low intensity effortsInside Backs51 average high intensity efforts per match4.2 seconds average duration high intensity efforts88 seconds average duration low intensity effortsOutside Backs46 average high intensity efforts per match5.2 seconds average duration high intensity efforts115 seconds average duration low intensity effortsI would suggest that for Rugby training, you should definitely do some HIIT, especially on a Tabata protocol since (as kybrk said) it has been seen to improve VO2 max - so anearobic and aerobic systems are effectively trained at the same time! I would also suggest that a good portion of the interval training not simply be running-based, due to the kind of work required, and should include rowing intervals and especially Crossfit style workouts. If you're a forward, do more sets of shorter efforts, if you're a back do fewer sets of longer efforts.Cheers,George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Launchbury Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Have you thought about some of your interval training being agility work, i.e. agility ladder, running zig-zags and other patterns around cones, etc? This will help you get better/stronger at changing direction, which ultimately reduces your risk of injury (esp. knees and ankles) and improves your in-game performance.I guess the benefits would be similar to doing dips on rings instead of dip-bars ...multi-directional strength and stability!Keeps things a little more interesting, too.Cheers,George.P.s. you might want to do some of your sprinting carrying a ball, which might seem odd ...but your running technique changes when you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 HIIT, is pretty much Tabata, they are both great and will get you good but you will notice improvements fast, today I ran a few miles and felt great, I forgot how running makes you feel, so I'll have to keep up with it as I use too!!I love Tabata training. Here's a good clock for it.http://tabata.sperker.de/index.php?nav=homegood for other interval training to. or just to time holds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamprowse Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 personally i only do gymnastics, buttttt.... i love to surf and skimboard and they are extremely bad for what i want to doso i break it down like this, 5 days a week, mon-friday i do only gymnastics, then on the weekends everything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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