Support hold question

[Joakim Andersson]

I usually do a support hold for time during my ring sessions. I can hold it for a minute without much trouble. How can I progress from here? Hold wider? Replace it with L-sit (I already do them, although I could do more)? Concentrate on other progressions instead such as PL, BL, FL? Something else?

[Blairbob]

Hold wider.

L-sit will not bear any more hold really than the support. Well there is a bit more load actually but nothing huge.

A simple way to make it harder is to double the length of the straps unless you are pretty long straps.

You are correct that it is probably time to start working stuff like L-sit to tuck planche.

How's your HS on rings? L-sit press to shoulderstand, climb to HS and hold.

Are you working dipping on rings? I breezed through your posts.

Swinging support holds can be tough.

[Joakim Andersson]

I can't lengthen the straps any more due to lack of room, so I'll hold wider as you say. Maybe widely held L-sits could be interesting to try too, would you recommend it?

To give you an idea of my current ability, I can hold a 10 second flat tuck planche on the rings, do 30 second strap HS's to a 5 min total without too much trouble. Bulgarian dips I did 4x10 last training and 2x10 today.

I'll follow your advice and work on L-sit press to shoulderstand to HS, as handstanding might be my greatest weakness. I'll also begin swinging.

Thanks alot for the reply, it was enlightening. I'll update you on how it went after next training session.

[Blairbob]

Hmm, it sounds like you are doing fine right now.

Just start holding the support slightly wide from now on.

You need to work a harder form of a ring dip apparently.

[Razz]

work rings turned out dips :twisted:

[Joakim Andersson]

Rings turned out dips, check what other dip variations might be fitting for me? I agree that the bulgarians are too easy now. I did some bulgarian to tuck planche but I can do ten of those in a set too so that was not a challenge either.

[Joakim Andersson]

Today's ring workout:

Wide support - 30 seconds

Wide L-sit - 30 seconds

L-sit to shoulder stand to strap HS - 3 reps

L-sit to 5 seconds shoulder stand - 3 reps

Turned out dips - 3x3

Flat tuck PL - 3x7 seconds

L-sit - 3x20 seconds

The wide L-sits felt great, I got tired in the arms and abs around the same time so both were well worked.

The shoulder stand felt quite solid. The transition to HS was worse, my HS is pretty bad overall.

The dips with rings turned out were a challenge, I'll work them until I can do sets of 10, give me a few weeks

Thanks for the help.

[Blairbob]

Yep, the RTO dips.

[Joshua Naterman]

When you master the RTO dips, start adding some weight Seems like you are pretty strong in the wide support, do you think he's ready to do cross progressions Blairbob?

Edit: Also try keeping the rings wide the whole time, instead of bringing them close at the top of the movement. It makes a big difference.

[Blairbob]

Based on his training leg, Jocke appears to have good strength. Imo ( which isn't that experience or count that high ), he should first have his straight body BL dialed in to make sure his elbows are strong enough. I'm sure he is and that it is more of a matter of training it, which in anycase I still stand by my opinion. His FL progression strength seems good as well and FL can be tough on the elbows a bit as well.

He is probably at the point that he could start working on L-Cross on block negatives or holds.

Currently at our adult class, we have a few young guys that nearly have their BL and it's more of a matter of training it. They didn't do very well using the iron cross trainers and I think the elbow bend they exhibited in their attempts was a matter of them not working on a solid support with straight arms ( honestly they didn't show this at any time except when Jackie worked backward roll to support [felge] ). Of course, it could also have been that their elbows could not take the load and they instinctively bent their elbows ( maybe 15-30 degrees ). Both are probably stronger than myself in their upper bodies yet I was able to lower to L cross besides press back to support in the trainers ( on their easiest setting mind you ).

[Joshua Naterman]

That's a good point about the bl. I have a pretty strong full lay back lever and the cross stuff is still beyond me, wow. Talk about elbow strain It'll come though

[Blairbob]

Bare in mind, some years ago, let's say around 02, my back lever was VERY solid and I was getting close at an acceptable Cross. It may have been good enough to get value but it would still probably take deductions for being between 15 and 30 degrees off.

Very rarely, if ever do I feel any strain on my elbows doing BL unless they aren't warmed up or when doing cross progressions. Moreover, this is probably because I learned a proper support some years ago even if at times in between my strength has gone to pot.

[Joshua Naterman]

Lol, "gone to pot." Ah, the Brits are great. I didn't know you got points for the Cross that far off! Obviously, I have at best a rudimentary knowledge of judging gymnastics What do you do for elbow warmup? I am doing some light dumbbell work and then some quick forearm stretches, then a few pullups. Is there something more specific?

So, for the Cross, what is proper support? I am slightly hollow with the hollow of the elbows pointing down, so that there's no lateral pressure on my elbows. Body straight, arms just a hair off of straight. That's all I know to do.

[Blairbob]

If I managed to do a cross high by 15 degrees, I'd probably get the 0.2 it's worth but probably get deducted 0.1. I need to look it up.

Gregor would know this, I am more familiar with the U.S. Junior Olympic rules than the FIG rules.

For elbows, I don't really do anything. Probably dips or pushups or straight arm support and swings besides HS. I used to do rotating thingies with DB but I rarely have done them in the past couple years.

For IC I roll the shoulders forward and the chest is hollow.

[Joshua Naterman]

Cool cool, that's what I thought. At first I didn't roll the shoulders forward and OH MY GOD, who lit a fire in my elbows?!?! It was awful.

[Joakim Andersson]

Thanks alot for all the feedback.

I've been hiking in the norwegian mountains and been busy, so there hasn't been much training lately. Later this week, being properly back in training and warm again, I'll try a straight BL. I think I might be able to hold it for a few seconds. If it goes I'll think about starting to train for an iron cross, if not, the cross can wait. I'll keep you updated

[Joakim Andersson]

Still a bit to go to reach the full BL, but I can hold solid half Bl's (bent knees). Did 3x3 seconds. So I'm getting there...

[Joshua Naterman]

Nice!