BL Question Redux

[Chris Hobbs]

As a follow-up to my prior question on flexibility within the back lever (see topic for the initial question) ...

If I am hanging at full flexibility level I am basically in a flat tuck position. This is easy (relatively), although a bit intense as far as the stretch is concerned.

However, if I raise my hips using my core the BL becomes much more intense as far as strength is concerned, but it hits flexibility less. I am however nowhere near parallel.

So, my question is ... which is the better approach? Should I simply hang as much as possible and work the position from there since it looks like the more correct one, or should I be consciously pulling my hips up even if it means they move above parallel?

Finally, an example of how much tuck I can achieve - it doesn't look much different than the first pic. This was at the very end so I was getting a bit tired, but it does show how little curve I can achieve in my back - it just doesn't round much at all despite working on it for some time with the exercises Coach suggested previously (jefferson curls and cats/cows). I am still pushing forward with those exercises, but am losing hope of achieving success in this regard.

Any other thoughts/advice/critique appreciated. Thanks guys.

- Chris

[Joshua Naterman]

Hey Chris! It sounds like you are just strong in the back lever position. I am too, front and back levers are easy for me in the flat straddle position. Your back doesn't quite look flat, but it is really close. I can honestly say that after reading your original topic I don't really understand the problem with your back lever. What I got from all this is that you are unhappy with your flexibility. Start doing a complete body stretch program, and after a few months you will be able to do all sorts of new things! As far as your back levers go, at this point you need to be doing negative back lever pulls, going from inverted hang slowly down to flat back lever. When that's easy, start doing it with a flat straddle. The straddle is a big step up in difficulty, though personally I don't think they're that bad. It's tough on the biceps and shoulders at first, or at least that's where I felt it the most. My chest is really strong, so I don't have any difficulties there on anything. Anyhow, adding in those negative back lever pulls will really help you moving along with your BL progression. After a month or two you may find yourself pulling your body back up to inverted hang in a tuck lever or something. Then you're ready to start some tick tocks! They are fun You look sharp and strong, keep having fun and keep training!

[Blairbob]

Can you fully stretch out in the position if you put your feet on the ground? It may take some time as your shoulders are probably all loaded up in the first pic.

In the first pic, your back is still slightly rounded as the last. If you raise your hips, your back will flatten out and it will be harder.

If you turn the rings the other way, can you lower down anymore?

[Chris Hobbs]

... I don't really understand the problem with your back lever. What I got from all this is that you are unhappy with your flexibility. Start doing a complete body stretch program, and after a few months you will be able to do all sorts of new things!

Yes, definitely unhappy with my flexibility. The issue is mostly one of figureing out which is the better movement to structure with - the one that looks more correct form-wise but is easier, or the one that is more difficult but doesn't rely on my tightness to hold me up (not sure if this is really the case with the first, but it is how it feels).

As far as the full-body stretching, I have been working for quite some time and have made no results, at least none that are immediately apparent to me. I am still plowing forward with it and am incorporating some of the stuff from the seminar, but this aspect has always been problematic for me. My body just doesn't want to give up its tightness.

As far as your back levers go, at this point you need to be doing negative back lever pulls, going from inverted hang slowly down to flat back lever. When that's easy, start doing it with a flat straddle. The straddle is a big step up in difficulty, though personally I don't think they're that bad. It's tough on the biceps and shoulders at first, or at least that's where I felt it the most. My chest is really strong, so I don't have any difficulties there on anything. Anyhow, adding in those negative back lever pulls will really help you moving along with your BL progression. After a month or two you may find yourself pulling your body back up to inverted hang in a tuck lever or something. Then you're ready to start some tick tocks! They are fun You look sharp and strong, keep having fun and keep training!

Thanks for the thoughts on the progressions. Right now I am pulling back up to an inverted hang after each set of the BL. My sets are at the 9 second mark, so the straddle will probably be a few months away at least. The tick tocks will be awhile as my FL totally sucks at this point.

- Chris

[Chris Hobbs]

Can you fully stretch out in the position if you put your feet on the ground? It may take some time as your shoulders are probably all loaded up in the first pic.

Haven't tried doing the German hang for awhile ... IIRC I can get a bit more ROM if I hang it that position for awhile and let myself relax through it a bit. Dropping my feet gives me a little bit more just from the extra weight pulling it down. I'll try and get another pic if you think it will help.

In the first pic, your back is still slightly rounded as the last. If you raise your hips, your back will flatten out and it will be harder.

So the second pic is the more correct flat back tuck. OK. That would explain why it is harder, but then what is keeping me from getting down to parallel at that point? Will it just happen as my flexibility improves or is there something specific I should be focusing on?

So, which is better to work on, the one that is stressing my flexibility more, or the one that is stressing my strength more? I can do the sets with either, but I am a bit confused on which one I should be utilizing. I could also try experimenting with not pulling my hips up quite as much, but it definitely gets easier if I don't. Where I took the pic is the most difficult position for me.

If you turn the rings the other way, can you lower down anymore?

I don't believe so. But I'll give it a whirl and see.

- Chris

[Joshua Naterman]

If your sets are at 9 seconds, you are definitely stressing your strength(so to speak). When you can do sets of 15, move on to the next progression. At least, that's what I've been doing and I have been making steady gains. Like Blairbob said, what you need to do is keep the form you are using, because it's correct BL, and flatten your back out. Pretend you're trying to push your butt into the back corner of the ceiling. That's it. And start lowering down from inverted hang to your back levers! You will still acquire strength at the various points in the ROM without overstressing your joints.

As for your stretching, what is your program? Are you using PNF techniques(flex-release)? Are you doing a combination of active flexibility, a good warm-up before stretching, and using an effective flow of stretches? Type out your stretching program step by step, starting with warm ups and continuing to each stretch or movement you use, complete with hold times, rest times if there are any, etc. We should be able to help you refine what you are doing, because it sounds like your body needs more preparation for stretching!

[Chris Hobbs]

If your sets are at 9 seconds, you are definitely stressing your strength(so to speak). When you can do sets of 15, move on to the next progression. At least, that's what I've been doing and I have been making steady gains. Like Blairbob said, what you need to do is keep the form you are using, because it's correct BL, and flatten your back out. Pretend you're trying to push your butt into the back corner of the ceiling. That's it. And start lowering down from inverted hang to your back levers! You will still acquire strength at the various points in the ROM without overstressing your joints.

Hadn't thought of it as trying to get my butt into the back corner, I'll give that a try and see if it gets me to that middle ground between the first two pics. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I am lowering to the BL from a hang (not even sure of how else you could get into one), as well as pulling back to a hang at the end of the set. And 15 seconds was what Coach stressed at the seminar as the upper end to hit before moving onward as well so that was my plan. I might be able to hit that set time at this point but wanted to do a clear steady-state cycle with this amount before moving onward.

As for your stretching, what is your program? Are you using PNF techniques(flex-release)? Are you doing a combination of active flexibility, a good warm-up before stretching, and using an effective flow of stretches? Type out your stretching program step by step, starting with warm ups and continuing to each stretch or movement you use, complete with hold times, rest times if there are any, etc. We should be able to help you refine what you are doing, because it sounds like your body needs more preparation for stretching!

Regarding the stretching, I have tried PNF, Pavel's Relax Into Stretch, Yoga, Resistance stretching, and a few others. The only one that gave me any results was Resistance stretching (Bob Cooley's "Genius Of Flexibility" I believe was the title) - however after a bit of progress I stagnated and wasn't able to get any more out of it ... I have however retained what I did gain (I can now touch my toes whereas I was at mid-shin level previously).

I am currently taking some of what we covered at the seminar and working it into a one-day a week intense stretching day (planning to work up to two days a week), with lots of active stretching in the session. I am going to give it through the end of this cycle and then re-evaluate, I'll post details on the sessions in another thread on my cycle when I get a chance to put it together ... it'll be interesting though as I don't have names for all of the stretches I am doing.

- Chris