kickboxer using gymnastics

[kmerc609]

hey everyone, im new to the site and like probably hundreds of people i read coach sommer's article building an olympic body and i have just a few questions. im a kickboxer training for amateur matches and do a lot of strength and conditioning on my own but realize the amount of stength,balance,coordination,etc that gymnastic moves like the planche and lever require. im going to start with doing the frog stand and the tuck lever. i can do the advanced tuck lever but want to really focus on the planche because i also go capoeria which is a mix of acrobatics,gymnastics,and martial arts. the main questions i wanted to ask are

1. when doing the frog stand should my arms be completely straight.

2. i am going to use the m/w/f split for the first couple months or so then advance to the m/t/t/f, would this be the best way to go about training?

3. the three exercises i am going to start with are the frog stand, tuck lever and hanging L, any others you guys recommend?

i am going to have rings by the summer and am working on building parallettes.

[David Picó García]

Im not coach sommer, but ill try to answer:

1. First you have to be able to go 1 minute with bent elbows. This is not very difficult, its just a matter of equilibrium. Perhaps you can do this on your first couple of tries, so you can go to tuck planche, if you just can hold a few seconds, you can try the frog with straight elbows as an intermediate step.

2. Really dont know.

3. I would go for the handstands and its variations (on wall, freestanding, pushups, presses). There are some posts about all this variations on this forum.

[kmerc609]

the bodyweight exercises i use most for max strength are one arm pushups(can do 12+ and arm max), one arm chinup progressions, handstand pushups(working on doing them btw blocks), and one legged squats.

[Raizen]

First of all, welcome to the forum! Haha introductions aside, on to your question:

1.) The frog stand is the only planche progression that doesn't require straight arms, though I believe someone already answered this one. =/

2.)It depends on your personal level of fitness. As a kickboxer and capoeirista you body is probably already fairly well conditioned, and could most likely handle a four day per week regime. I would suggest trying one, and then deciding by how you feel whether or not you're fit enough.

3.) Since you're a beginner, you might benefit from a routine I created for some of my friends I've trained. It's a bodyweight routine thats VERY basic.

MONDAY & THURSDAY

Front Lever Progression- 60 seconds total

(Weighted) Chinup- 4x2

Bodyweight Hamstring Curl- 4x2

Hanging Leg Raises (tucked, L, or V)- 3x3

TUESDAY & FRIDAY

Planche Progression- 60 seconds total

Handstand Pushups- 4x2

(Weighted) Pistols- 4x2

Hyperextensions- 3x3

Again, that one is pretty generalized, and fairly simple. I generally suggest for rest times you spend abut 3 minutes for the major exercises (4x2's), and 2 minutes for the supplimentary ones (3x3's). Some people on the forum disagree, so feel free to look into their methods as well to see which you prefer. Obviously for the hamstring curl you'll need a spotter (somewhere on the forum there is an excellent thread about the drill), and for both the curl and the handstand pushups, you'll need to work through various progressions. Your work in the roda has no doubt made you very familiar with the handstand, and so you've no doubt already amassed significant strength in that position. Mr. Sommer wrote an excellent guide on how to attain full ROM handstand pushups (not headstand pushups), read it. Hope this helps you some. By the way, what style of Capoeira do you practice?

[kmerc609]

Thanks for answering my question. That routine is very basic can u suggest some advanced supplementary exercises? Yeah the cartwheels and slow movements in angola have developed my shoulders and Im already working on full ROM handstand pushups between chairs. My group is Axe Capoeria

[Raizen]

If you've developed enough core strength dragon flags are a great exercise to replace the hanging leg raises with. An alternative is just to add weight to your feet. Also, you could purchase an ab wheel, which has many exercises and possibilities, and is only around 5-7 dollars. I think I've heard of Ax before. Gymnastics style training definately compliments Angola well. For 8 years I used to play Regional thrice a week, and sometimes Angola (our mestre was well versed in both, but prefered Regional). Capoeira is amazingly fun.

[kmerc609]

Yeah and great for the body.

[RyanH]

MONDAY & THURSDAY

Front Lever Progression- 60 seconds total

(Weighted) Chinup- 4x2

Bodyweight Hamstring Curl- 4x2

Hanging Leg Raises (tucked, L, or V)- 3x3

TUESDAY & FRIDAY

Planche Progression- 60 seconds total

Handstand Pushups- 4x2

(Weighted) Pistols- 4x2

Hyperextensions- 3x3

Raizen,

Does doing the holds first affect the other movements much or is it a matter of priority? I thought the holds were generally to be put after other movements.

[Edward Smith]

I quote:

"Does doing the holds first affect the other movements much or is it a matter of priority? I thought the holds were generally to be put after other movements."

well I've just started moving my statics to the end of my workouts and feel its improved my performance when training, my main statics are just planche and front lever sometimes i'll throw in handstands or lock-offs, because (why I think so anyway) the planche and front lever are very demanding for me and when i had them first I was doing most of the other exercises pretty crapily or averagely (sometimes I'd feel alright afterwards but not generally) and I just felt worn out. know (doing them at the end of my workouts) my dynamic work is much better, easier and more enjoyable also for some reason (i have no idea why) my statics feel better and stronger.

this ones not too long a post for me, but this has been my experience with this so far (3ish weeks).

Ed

oww and as a side note my wrists don't get sore anymore

[George Launchbury]

I've noticed my wrists feel much worse if I do handstands before chin-ups, whereas if I do them afterwards they seem a lot better. Maybe the decompression helps prepare the joint in some way?

On the strength continuum, a load that you can't lift can be held statically, and a load that you can't hold statically, can be lowered under control.

Therefore I guess you are saving the bigger hit on the muscles/joints until later in the workout when you are better warmed up, and not leaving the dynamic work until you are you too fried to do it to your best ability.

In the most basic terms, I am under the impression that increasing the load throughout your workout (instead of reducing it as you go, to allow more sets) will help inform your CNS/muscles that you want to get stronger, rather than that you want better endurance?

Be interested to hear what the experienced coaches/trainers on here think?

Cheers,

George.