Shoulder/upper arm pain iron cross practice

[Maxh1989]

So about 5 days ago I started practicing the iron cross on rings. I am not able to do a full iron cross so I place the ring close to my wrist and hold the cross position for anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds repeated sets of that. After my first set I noticed my shoulder up to about my elbow hurt a bit, but kept going. The pain felt similar to a growing pain, however I am not growing anymore as I am 24. I haven't practiced the cross for about 5 days, but I have been doing exercises that involve either my arms or shoulders about every day since then such as pullups, muscle-ups, planche practice, handstand pushups, the shoulder pain seems to return after any workout that involves my arms and shoulders. 

 

I was thinking that this my just be normal since I have never practiced the iron cross before as it toke an extreme amount of effort when I was doing it. As I said I only did 5 to 10 second hold, but those seconds were quite painful.

 

I just don't want to hurt myself and am wondering if I should give my arms a break for a couple days or just push though and expect the pain to go away. Symptoms seem similar to rotor cuff tendentious, which I saw could be a result of a new workout. Any suggestions on what to do?

 

 

thanks

[Jesus Rojas]

First don't try the cross anymore,look up for some prerequisites if you haven't done yet and don't rush it. And for the pain try to do exercises that doesn't cause any pain, it doesn't matter if you have to go back to the basics.

[Maxh1989]

Thanks for the advice. I am going to start doing the upside down static dumbbell holds and pulls and some back levers.

[Mikkel Ravn]

It's a classic mistake. You cannot get the cross by training it directly. You need to spend a couple of years just preparing your body for iron cross training. Look around the forum, there's plenty of info about that proves around here, or even better, but the foundation series and handstand one.

[Julian Aldag]

Thanks for the advice. I am going to start doing the upside down static dumbbell holds and pulls and some back levers.

 

That's your mistake right there. 'Some' back levers?  if you cant eating dinner in a back lever, you shouldn't be trying to do a cross.

Think of a iron cross like a +3x bodyweight deadlift.   You just dont keep trying it. It take a lot of preparatory work to build the body that can handle cross training. You got to run the whole marathon before you can cross the finish line

[Jon Douglas]

I'm not exactly sure why no-one has asked this yet but....

What sort of strength level are you at? How are your basic support, ring HS/press HS, rope climb, front/back lever, ring straddle planche?

 

Naturally all of those should bea ways below 'max strength' effort before looking at specific cross prep.

[Julian Aldag]

I'm not exactly sure why no-one has asked this yet but....

Sorry Jon. I just guess its getting hard when people keep asking the same question.   "So I started training/attempting 'A', and its not going so well and 'B' is starting to hurt. Am i doing something wrong?".    I guess I have a habit of assuming that everyone is trying to go straight from the couch to a decathlon :/

[Maxh1989]

Well I really haven't done anything on the rings before. I just got a set a week ago and went strait to the cross. I just tried to do a front and back lever for the first time yesterday I found I wasn't able to even properly do those. As for the back lever I can only get like roughly 30 degrees from parallel to the ground before I give out. So I will do some practice leg tucks to practice at those. I thought I would be able to do the cross because I was able to do a hold on two static objects almost my arms length across. I realize that it is easier, but didn't realize it would be completely different. I am pretty decent at handstands and can easily do 20 free handstand push ups so I sorta that the strength might transfer, but man was I wrong. I haven't tried the ring handstand yet, but I'll have to give that a try today. Sorry for being such a newb and wasting your guys time with questions that have already been answered on this site and others.

 

Thanks a ton for the help. You guys have been really helpful.  I really do appreciate it. 

[Mikkel Ravn]

Hey Max

 

You're eager, and I can totally relate, but make sure to check out the prerequisite sticky in the rings section. Sounds like the motivation thing you've got going could really take you a long way, but it could also ruin your elbows in a single session. Ten months of rest and rehab is no fun.

 

The thing you need to understand about GST is that you cannot train hard elements all the time, it will surely lead to injury. You need to train several levels of intensity lower than the skill you're aiming for. It's all spelled out in the Foundation series, which would be your best bet. Not trying to sell you anything, but there's not really anything else out there, that will break the process down for you like the F-series.

[Jon Douglas]

Well I really haven't done anything on the rings before. I just got a set a week ago and went strait to the cross. I just tried to do a front and back lever for the first time yesterday I found I wasn't able to even properly do those. As for the back lever I can only get like roughly 30 degrees from parallel to the ground before I give out. So I will do some practice leg tucks to practice at those. I thought I would be able to do the cross because I was able to do a hold on two static objects almost my arms length across. I realize that it is easier, but didn't realize it would be completely different. I am pretty decent at handstands and can easily do 20 free handstand push ups so I sorta that the strength might transfer, but man was I wrong. I haven't tried the ring handstand yet, but I'll have to give that a try today. Sorry for being such a newb and wasting your guys time with questions that have already been answered on this site and others.

 

Thanks a ton for the help. You guys have been really helpful.  I really do appreciate it. 

You haven't wasted any time sounds like you have a good base to work from, but until you spend some time with rings it's hard to put the difficulty in perspective.

 

This link covers cross prep, but without meaning to be too blunt, you aren't prepared enough to get specific with it yet.

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/8084-preparing-the-elbows-and-biceps-for-iron-cross-training/

 

 

I can't recommend Foundation/Handstand enough, but that's up to you of course there's plenty of free information available on gbodies to get you started on the road.

[Aaro Helander]

I have a +20 second full and clean back lever at the moment, and my cross training is currently made of planche leans, shoulder and spinal mobility work and general, light straight arm variations. Once every couple weeks I play with the cross pulls which you described, and I don't take it to the point where I feel any pain.

 

I'm planning to have the cross within 2 years from now by slowly building up a huge training capacity for my connective tissue - in other words, following the GB programs 

[Julian Aldag]

Hey Max,

I wasn't scolding you, and your time wasnt wasted either.  I just wish there was a way to get to people like yourself before they get on the rings and hurt themselves.  It takes a LONG time to conditioning the joint in the arms and shoulders to get to cross training, and there are bunch of prerequisites before you start. Without getting into too much detail, a good place to start for bare minimum conditioning is learning German hangs, Skin the cats, dead hang, Front and back support holds (on the floor).  Look through the forums, you'll find this stuff

[Maxh1989]

Hey Max

 

You're eager, and I can totally relate, but make sure to check out the prerequisite sticky in the rings section. Sounds like the motivation thing you've got going could really take you a long way, but it could also ruin your elbows in a single session. Ten months of rest and rehab is no fun.

 

The thing you need to understand about GST is that you cannot train hard elements all the time, it will surely lead to injury. You need to train several levels of intensity lower than the skill you're aiming for. It's all spelled out in the Foundation series, which would be your best bet. Not trying to sell you anything, but there's not really anything else out there, that will break the process down for you like the F-series.

 

 

Yeah I realize that It will take a long time, as it did take a long time for me to get to do a lot of other things. Just kinda funny that some strength does't transfer over to other moves. I am definitely going to get the entire series as soon as possible.

 

Thanks.  

[Maxh1989]

You haven't wasted any time sounds like you have a good base to work from, but until you spend some time with rings it's hard to put the difficulty in perspective.

 

This link covers cross prep, but without meaning to be too blunt, you aren't prepared enough to get specific with it yet.

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/8084-preparing-the-elbows-and-biceps-for-iron-cross-training/

 

 

I can't recommend Foundation/Handstand enough, but that's up to you of course there's plenty of free information available on gbodies to get you started on the road.

 

Thanks for the link I'll put  that in my favorites so I can remember it for later when I get to that point. As I told Ravn I will be getting the whole series as soon as possible. 

[Maxh1989]

Hey Max,

I wasn't scolding you, and your time wasnt wasted either.  I just wish there was a way to get to people like yourself before they get on the rings and hurt themselves.  It takes a LONG time to conditioning the joint in the arms and shoulders to get to cross training, and there are bunch of prerequisites before you start. Without getting into too much detail, a good place to start for bare minimum conditioning is learning German hangs, Skin the cats, dead hang, Front and back support holds (on the floor).  Look through the forums, you'll find this stuff

Thanks good to know. I have been doing Skin the cats and dead hangs along with alternating extending each leg out with the back lever. I haven't heard of front and back support holds (on the floor before though). I'll check those ones out.

[Maxh1989]

Happy to say that I'm not having pain in my shoulders anymore even though I have been practicing for back lever and ring HS. 

 

I am definitely going to get the entire series sometime soon. Yesterday I tried the ring handstand. I didn't want to jump into it because I was afraid of flipping over so I started in a head stand position with my head below my arms on the ground and pushed myself up. It was very difficult. It took me about 10 seconds to get my arms locked out. I also kept my legs leaning on the rope so it wasn't free. I tried them again today and was able to do about 3 fairly easily (maybe because my legs weren't as intertwined with the rope, thus less friction). Just having your head start below your arms makes such a huge difference. Was a complete shock to my body. I need to learn next how to do the handstand without my legs toughing the rope. I am just kinda afraid of flipping over. What would I even do to save myself in that situation? I mean I have flipped a million times with normal handstands, but that is easy to roll out of, even on the bosu ball it's ok. But flipping over on the rings seems like a death trap (even though the rings are about 6 in from the ground.)

 

Also for the back lever I noticed that I wasn't using my lats and squeezing them to my triceps (before my arms made about a 70 degree angle with my torso and now only about 30 degrees) . Still wasn't able to do stay completely parallel, but I could hold out one leg for a bit parallel and switch legs. 

[Maxh1989]

I have a +20 second full and clean back lever at the moment, and my cross training is currently made of planche leans, shoulder and spinal mobility work and general, light straight arm variations. Once every couple weeks I play with the cross pulls which you described, and I don't take it to the point where I feel any pain.

 

I'm planning to have the cross within 2 years from now by slowly building up a huge training capacity for my connective tissue - in other words, following the GB programs 

How long did it take you to get to the +20 second full and clean back lever?

[Aaro Helander]

How long did it take you to get to the +20 second full and clean back lever?

Hard to tell, it's something I was training on and off for a couple of years now, but I think that from the point where I could hold it occasionally for five seconds it took me half a year of semi-consistent training to get 20 seconds out consistently.

[SM3091]

Max, I can relate to what you have said so far. I started Gymnastic Strength Training™ about 8-9 months ago, coming from a moderate weightlifting background. I was in decent shape, but gymnastic strength is a completely different beast. For now, start with basic ring support holds with the rings turned out. This in itself will be a challenge initially. I remember having the same kind of upper arm pain and shoulder pain with basic supports. As your tendons adjust, this will pass. It is important to understand that tendons take much longer to heal than muscles do, so adequate rest is essential. Search the forums for the basics and if you have the money, buy the foundation series. From what I hear, people are seeing great benefits from following it.